$22 NLHE MTT: $22 NLHE MTT: Mini Million (Staked) - pocket KK

[Dejange]

Hi all, appreciate all opinions about this particular hand as already 5 days I am constantly back to it reviewing and analyzing and trying to fix my leaks in such situation:

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T30/T60
Buy-in: $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit
PokerStars
9 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T7 634)
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (T9 514)
UTG+2 - Hero (T10 446)
MP - MP (T13 953)
MP2 - MP2 (T12 254)
CO - CO (T9 892)
BTN - BTN (T10 857)
SB - SB (T8 561)
BB - BB (T6 737)

Preflop: (T144, 9 players) Hero is UTG+2 with K♠ K♦2 folds, Hero raises to T210, 5 folds, BB raises to T720, Hero calls T510

Flop: J♥ 7♣ 3♥ (T1 524, 2 players - Hero: T9 720, BB: T6 011)BB bets T671, Hero raises to T2 582, BB raises to T6 011 (all-in), Hero calls T3 429

Turn: 3♣ (T13 546, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T3 709, BB: T0)

River: J♠ (T13 546, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T3 709, BB: T0)

Total Pot: T13 546
BB shows A♦ A♠ (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Hero shows K♠ K♦ (two pair, Kings and Jacks)

BB wins T13 546

BOOM Player: https://www.boomplayer.com/29485260_FBF3D603F4

Beside technical advises, I would also be thankful to have your opinion in "menthal" side of this hand, as I was not only loosing this huge pot, but also it affected my play in next few hands where I was finally busted out.

Preflop I did the standard raise. Upon Villain's 3Bet - my first thought was he is holding AA, so I was 50:50 to fold KK preflop. Within the added time I thought about previous hands played by the opponent - too much crap hands, too aggressive and too loose. maybe a chance to catch him on board even if he holds AK. So I call that 3Bet.
Board was on my side if it is matters of AK. But the Villain is still aggressive - too much pocket hands below mine, AA still in mind but now not so sharp, shadowed somehow ...
Wrong - turn and river neutral, but I should listen to my intuition preflop and just fold

 

[Matt Vaughan]

You say that your first reaction when facing the 3bet is that you are up against AA? This is a severe misunderstanding of how often people show up with huge hands.

There are only 6 possible ways he can have AA, and people tend to 3bet JJ+/AQ+ at an absolute minimum - that'd be a VERY tight 3bet range. So I'd normally be looking to 4bet here.

If anything 4betting and getting it in pre would be much better than putting in so many bets on the flop. You don't give us any information on the villain's stats so unless you tell me you have hundreds of hands and the guy has NEVER 3bet, then I would just flat. But I'm 4betting without info.

 

[Dejange]

You say that your first reaction when facing the 3bet is that you are up against AA? This is a severe misunderstanding of how often people show up with huge hands.

There are only 6 possible ways he can have AA, and people tend to 3bet JJ+/AQ+ at an absolute minimum - that'd be a VERY tight 3bet range. So I'd normally be looking to 4bet here.

If anything 4betting and getting it in pre would be much better than putting in so many bets on the flop. You don't give us any information on the villain's stats so unless you tell me you have hundreds of hands and the guy has NEVER 3bet, then I would just flat. But I'm 4betting without info.

Thanks Matt for your reply, it was early in the game, just 2nd level so the stats are not much reliable, but I understand what you mean :top:

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Right, so when you don't information, you can't make super duper exploitable adjustments.

You said you had "intuition" in the spot but without a lot of hands on someone, your intuition shouldn't affect much UNLESS it's a very polarizing type of spot where you have a lot of experience in the player pool and you know what people are generally doing in that situation.

 

[mara2259]

I don’t know if I can give you advice, but 3bet and fold after a re-raise preflop would be much cheaper. The fourth raise is usually a rocket. Judging by the stacks, your opponent cannot be a maniac.

 

[mara2259]

And you asked for an account of mentality. So: most likely no one would have shown the rocket to you, and you would have been tormented all the way by the question of whether it is good to drop pocket kings without a fight. Yes, no luck, but now you know that your intuition is all right. Good luck and I don’t want to meet at the same table.

 

[playinggameswithu]

Dejange I respect you as a solid player among few as a ratio on CC. The odds of getting dealt KK is like 219 to 1 from memory. What could be the odds of getting AA verse KK? If this was the bubble to a major shot taking MTT I'd HATE to see KK and a fold is easily warranted pre flop but this is just a standard hand where we are trying to accumulate BB's. The hand is just a big loser "cooler" hand where you are guaranteed to lose chips NO MATTER how it is played. The best you can do is lose the minimum although it is a MTT so a chip saved is NOT a chip earned. If you run this bad you can NEVER win the MTT. It is a skilled gambling structure not a skill game like large volume cash game. You just ran bad mate.

On the flip side a donk fish idiot could win with a winner Nut pre-flop hand like your opponent did....its just the way the cards are dealt, in the position they are dealt, to the opponents style, in the order the flop turn river comes, previous history and a million other variables. This happend to me as I lost with QQ to JJ on the river in the MDS several months ago 49 to 1 odds since the board was suited and I held the only diamond...what I said to myself was " Well I can't win this MTT with that bad luck. No mistake on my part."

TLDR: You just ran bad.

 

[puzzlefish]

Hi all, appreciate all opinions about this particular hand as already 5 days I am constantly back to it reviewing and analyzing and trying to fix my leaks in such situation:

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T30/T60
Buy-in: $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit
PokerStars
9 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T7 634)
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (T9 514)
UTG+2 - Hero (T10 446)
MP - MP (T13 953)
MP2 - MP2 (T12 254)
CO - CO (T9 892)
BTN - BTN (T10 857)
SB - SB (T8 561)
BB - BB (T6 737)

Preflop: (T144, 9 players) Hero is UTG+2 with K[emoji812] K[emoji815]2 folds, Hero raises to T210, 5 folds, BB raises to T720, Hero calls T510

Flop: J[emoji813] 7[emoji814] 3[emoji813] (T1 524, 2 players - Hero: T9 720, BB: T6 011)BB bets T671, Hero raises to T2 582, BB raises to T6 011 (all-in), Hero calls T3 429

Turn: 3[emoji814] (T13 546, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T3 709, BB: T0)

River: J[emoji812] (T13 546, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T3 709, BB: T0)

Total Pot: T13 546
BB shows A[emoji815] A[emoji812] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Hero shows K[emoji812] K[emoji815] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)

BB wins T13 546

BOOM Player: https://www.boomplayer.com/29485260_FBF3D603F4

Beside technical advises, I would also be thankful to have your opinion in "menthal" side of this hand, as I was not only loosing this huge pot, but also it affected my play in next few hands where I was finally busted out.

Preflop I did the standard raise. Upon Villain's 3Bet - my first thought was he is holding AA, so I was 50:50 to fold KK preflop. Within the added time I thought about previous hands played by the opponent - too much crap hands, too aggressive and too loose. maybe a chance to catch him on board even if he holds AK. So I call that 3Bet.
Board was on my side if it is matters of AK. But the Villain is still aggressive - too much pocket hands below mine, AA still in mind but now not so sharp, shadowed somehow ...
Wrong - turn and river neutral, but I should listen to my intuition preflop and just fold

I don't think you're leaking here. The only way you could get away is if you went with your gut that he had AA or otherwise put him on JJ on the flop. I have seen all sorts of trash being 3bet at all levels of buy-ins. You can only hope that these situations happen enough over the long run that you are on both sides and it balances out.

In terms of the mental aspect, you have to remember that you can get your stack back as easy as you lose it. I have seen players go to the verge of elimination and get back within 10 hands to where they were before. If you care about the tournament and your buyin, never give up.

 

[levidoff]

just a cooler, you would still be exposed

 

[Dejange]

Thanks all for your inputs and comments

 

[acemenow]

Priorto reading the comments I watched the boom player. And thought I would not have played that any different. Though I am not as good a player as many of you so only thing I might have done is pushed all in preflop after his raise thinking if he has AA, he has me, so be it.

I was in a 80k GTD for $20 buy in a while ago was in the top 10 of the tourney and moved to a new table where another top 10 ranked player was seated so the only person that could take my stack. I bet heavy on the flop 3 or 4 bet (I forget) and he called. 9 Q 3 rainbow flops and he pushed all in. So do I put him on A Q? 33? 99? I called and he had 99, had just made the money but still kick myself because I didn't need to put my tourney life at stake, but that was a hard hand to fold

 

[abzdolc]

nice play of this hand, I think everything is ok here

 

[Bozovicdj]

Hi all, appreciate all opinions about this particular hand as already 5 days I am constantly back to it reviewing and analyzing and trying to fix my leaks in such situation:

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T30/T60
Buy-in: $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit
PokerStars
9 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T7 634)
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (T9 514)
UTG+2 - Hero (T10 446)
MP - MP (T13 953)
MP2 - MP2 (T12 254)
CO - CO (T9 892)
BTN - BTN (T10 857)
SB - SB (T8 561)
BB - BB (T6 737)

Preflop: (T144, 9 players) Hero is UTG+2 with K♠K♦2 folds, Hero raises to T210, 5 folds, BB raises to T720, Hero calls T510

Flop: J♥7♣3♥ (T1 524, 2 players - Hero: T9 720, BB: T6 011)BB bets T671, Hero raises to T2 582, BB raises to T6 011 (all-in), Hero calls T3 429

Turn: 3♣ (T13 546, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T3 709, BB: T0)

River: J♠ (T13 546, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: T3 709, BB: T0)

Total Pot: T13 546
BB shows A♦A♠ (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Hero shows K♠K♦ (two pair, Kings and Jacks)

BB wins T13 546

BOOM Player: https://www.boomplayer.com/29485260_FBF3D603F4

Beside technical advises, I would also be thankful to have your opinion in "menthal" side of this hand, as I was not only loosing this huge pot, but also it affected my play in next few hands where I was finally busted out.

Preflop I did the standard raise. Upon Villain's 3Bet - my first thought was he is holding AA, so I was 50:50 to fold KK preflop. Within the added time I thought about previous hands played by the opponent - too much crap hands, too aggressive and too loose. maybe a chance to catch him on board even if he holds AK. So I call that 3Bet.
Board was on my side if it is matters of AK. But the Villain is still aggressive - too much pocket hands below mine, AA still in mind but now not so sharp, shadowed somehow ...
Wrong - turn and river neutral, but I should listen to my intuition preflop and just fold

My first reaction here is, why not 4-bet? Looking at blinds and stack sizes, this is deep stack tournament where players tend to 3-bet wider then usual. I would even say it is wider then what Scourge suggested and about TT+, AJs+ AQo+, KQs and sometimes QJs (this is based on what I saw people generally 3-bet in 10-50$ buy ins).
That being said, on that flop, there are a lot of draws, and Jx hands that hit and are betting for value. I would be more inclined to just call and hope they continue betting the turn with a draw or J or QQ or sometimes TT.. But in the end, given the board texture, my chips would go all in eventually.

As for the anger management after the hand: I would not consider this a bad beat. I always think about how the hand played out, and whether the opponent played correctly. If both me and opponent played it right then there is no reason to get angry - therefore, move on.
However, if someone played ridiculously bad and beat me somehow, then I do get angry, and probably just like you, can't shake it off easily and make bad decision afterwards.

 

[Mortis]

Classic KK vs AA here. I dont think you did anything wrong.

Without knowing much about the villain, its easy to think he may shove with AJ post flop here. I mean, it would be pretty aggressive for AJ, but putting him on top pair/top kicker isnt unreasonable. I dont think Id be able to fold KK after that flop, either.

 

[Dejange]

Priorto reading the comments I watched the boom player. And thought I would not have played that any different. Though I am not as good a player as many of you so only thing I might have done is pushed all in preflop after his raise thinking if he has AA, he has me, so be it.

I was in a 80k GTD for $20 buy in a while ago was in the top 10 of the tourney and moved to a new table where another top 10 ranked player was seated so the only person that could take my stack. I bet heavy on the flop 3 or 4 bet (I forget) and he called. 9 Q 3 rainbow flops and he pushed all in. So do I put him on A Q? 33? 99? I called and he had 99, had just made the money but still kick myself because I didn't need to put my tourney life at stake, but that was a hard hand to fold

Maybe I was rather concentrated into the game, watching closely all the previous hands - where the Villain was rather active. I was paying special attention also to the betting sizes, and maybe this gave me a hint about opponent's pocket hand. Just this little insight I got - restrain me from going 4bet preflop.
But all you wrote is correct, thanks :top:

nice play of this hand, I think everything is ok here

Thanks, just wondering how the outcome of it would be better Seems like no way

My first reaction here is, why not 4-bet? Looking at blinds and stack sizes, this is deep stack tournament where players tend to 3-bet wider then usual. I would even say it is wider then what Scourge suggested and about TT+, AJs+ AQo+, KQs and sometimes QJs (this is based on what I saw people generally 3-bet in 10-50$ buy ins).
That being said, on that flop, there are a lot of draws, and Jx hands that hit and are betting for value. I would be more inclined to just call and hope they continue betting the turn with a draw or J or QQ or sometimes TT.. But in the end, given the board texture, my chips would go all in eventually.

As for the anger management after the hand: I would not consider this a bad beat. I always think about how the hand played out, and whether the opponent played correctly. If both me and opponent played it right then there is no reason to get angry - therefore, move on.
However, if someone played ridiculously bad and beat me somehow, then I do get angry, and probably just like you, can't shake it off easily and make bad decision afterwards.

Only my fear of pocket AA preventing me from 4bet preflop before the board appears. After the flop appeared, and the low raise - I was feeling more confident (no A on board, I am holding the top pair, etc). Started to believe I had the nuts, but eeeh

After the hand, I was not so angry - only feeling a little bit stupid as the table was not hard to compete at all But widen my range too much and went out in rather gambling style - something I am trying to avoid ...

Classic KK vs AA here. I dont think you did anything wrong.

Without knowing much about the villain, its easy to think he may shove with AJ post flop here. I mean, it would be pretty aggressive for AJ, but putting him on top pair/top kicker isnt unreasonable. I dont think Id be able to fold KK after that flop, either.

Same thinking here, hard to fold KK preflop, despite my readings appeared correct afterwards. Moreover - the board was very friendly for me
I was hoping the Villain had AK or QQ so desperately when calling his shove

 

[Flight777sem]

I think you have played that hand very well. It’s a cooler and sometimes there is no way. Can’t fold KK preflop if you make 4bet you’ll find yourself in all in, you made a better play and wanted to see clean flop so there is no A in case of AK so just gotta go. Unlucky