$215 NLHE MTT: sunday mill, assigning range on a limp/reraiser really deep,

duggs

duggs

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pokerstars - $200+$15|100/200 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: 7,787.00
BB: 22,482.00
UTG: 10,979.00
UTG+1: 4,935.00
MP: 7,055.00
MP+1: 13,675.00
CO: 17,156.00
Hero (BTN): 20,000.00

SB posts SB 100.00, BB posts BB 200.00

Pre Flop: (300.00) Hero has Ks Kh

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 200.00, fold, Hero raises to 800.00, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 1,400.00, Hero raises to 3,600.00, MP+1 raises to 6,400.00, Hero raises to 20,000.00 and is all-in, MP+1 calls 7,275.00 and is all-in

what kind of range to you assign a limper/reraiser?
 
duggs

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just AA? i normally assign a range of 33-99 with a few combos of QQ,KK,AA, unless i assume there is some strong read otherwise.
 
ManicLombax

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I'm guessing that since the hand is posted here, that's what he had. Not saying in the moment I would have been able to lay down kings either, but yeah, sure smells like aces after the 5-bet.
 
duggs

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I'm guessing that since the hand is posted here, that's what he had. Not saying in the moment I would have been able to lay down kings either, but yeah, sure smells like aces after the 5-bet.

Thats not relevant, i just want to know if I am losing value by betting this so aggressively preflop and folding out a massive chunk of his range with the 4bet, or if limp/reraisers typically dont fold once they 3bet?
 
dwbrown7680

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Usually somewhere in the ballpark of 9's-Qs with the random AK or AA sprinkled in. I have no problem in how you played it here.
 
ManicLombax

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Didn't mean to imply that the result was relevant. Just admitting that my judgement may be biased by the fact that I can guess the result. I think in the moment, after the 5 bet, I would be telling myself that he has to have aces as I hit the all-in button. Takes a better player than me to lay down the kings.

Thats not relevant, i just want to know if I am losing value by betting this so aggressively preflop and folding out a massive chunk of his range with the 4bet, or if limp/reraisers typically dont fold once they 3bet?
 
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baudib1

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His minnish-5-bet range is AcAs, AcAh, AcAd, AsAh, AsAd, AhAd. That's assuming he's a tard.
 
duggs

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Usually somewhere in the ballpark of 9's-Qs with the random AK or AA sprinkled in. I have no problem in how you played it here.

thanks, as a general assumption it almost never contains SC/broadways etc right?
 
ManicLombax

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Thats not relevant, i just want to know if I am losing value by betting this so aggressively preflop and folding out a massive chunk of his range with the 4bet, or if limp/reraisers typically dont fold once they 3bet?

To answer the second part of this, which I missed, I don't have any problem with 4 betting here. The original 3-bet after the limp isn't always aces, but I think it is often enough that you don't want to just flat. There aren't a lot of flops you are going to get away from anyhow.
 
dwbrown7680

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Oh he def has Aces here but in general my 99-QQ/AK/AA line was about people who limp/3b.
 
ManicLombax

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baudib, dwbrown: are you actually folding the kings after the 5-bet here? I think I'm going to cry in my beer and shove here every time, even though I "know" he has aces. Just in case.
 
dwbrown7680

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Depends on villain and stats but I would find a hard time folding here. We could be up against QQ/KK/AA/AKo/AKs and only one of those has us dominated. I think we're ahead enough here to justify the call probably.
 
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I have never folded KK in a tournament but in this spot I would definitely do it (or try, I might just auto jam anyway) if I had a good read on this guy and felt he was passive and/or played his entire range face up.

I feel like if this guy had a hand that we beat like AK/QQ and decided to go with it he would just shove after we 4-bet. The small 5-bet is like AA 100% of the time IMO unless you are some super sick baller in a leveling war with another super sick baller.
 
dwbrown7680

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Idk, the fact that it isn't a min 5-bet (which would have been 5800) maybe slightly lessens the chance of AA? I mean it's hard to swallow that he probably has anything else but if he's some random spazz playing 78/14 or 55/0 then who knows....I also would have a hard time finding the fold button here.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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His minnish-5-bet range is AcAs, AcAh, AcAd, AsAh, AsAd, AhAd. That's assuming he's a tard.

lol, exactly what I thought when I saw it.

bet sizing indicates he has it or he's trying to rep it really hard.

prob the first imo.
 
duggs

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But everyone agrees we should always be 4betting as he doesnt ever fold worse after limp/3betting?
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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Anyone that limp re raises is generally a fish, so as long as he doesn't have Aces, it's probably good to go ahead and be as aggressive as you want. Sadly, a lot of the time, he has Aces and you have to make a fold this deep.
 
Pascal-lf

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johnboy, what you're saying is it's good if he hasn't got aces and bad if he does...I guess if he turns his cards over before someone acts then we can follow your inspiring advice ;)

peel the reraise imo
 
Karkus77

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it screams AA, but i am not good enough to fold KK so shed a tear and take a toke on my joint as i click all in
 
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