$215 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Comments please - Maximus Main event Game

[vegasjj]

I would like if I could get some comments regarding the play at each step as well as the suggestion re post turn.
Much appreciated

Games was 250K Grtee - 3 hrs late reg, this hand was apx after the first hour

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 15,426
SB: 8,330
BB: 11,210
UTG: 4,335
UTG+1: 24,069
UTG+2: 11,522
MP: 7,779
Hero (MP+1): 9,645
CO: 8,113

SB posts SB 25, BB posts BB 50

Pre Flop: (pot: 75) Hero has A♣ J♣

UTG calls 50, UTG+1 raises to 226, fold, fold, Hero calls 226, fold, fold, SB calls 201, fold, fold

Flop: (778, 3 players) 2♠ A♠ 3♣
SB checks, UTG+1 bets 363, Hero raises to 1,115, SB calls 1,115, fold

Turn: (3,371, 2 players) J♥
SB checks, Hero bets 1,685, SB raises to 6,989 and is all-in,

 

[Suited Frenzy]

I, personally, am folding here PF.

My 4 reasons...

1. it's way too early in the tournament (25/50 blinds) to be getting involved in a situation that is risking all of your chips, you have 193 big blinds & IMO no reason to risk a lot @ this stage in the tournament. You will get better hands than AJs to play IP.

2. 5 players left to act behind you after the UTG+1 raise

3. not knowing their stats or how they play in general

4. UTG+1 being a bigger stack that has the opportunity to KO you @ such an early blind stage

When I think of those reasons, I have no problem w/ folding PF all day in this spot.

As played though, instead of flatting UTG+1 raise PF, re-raise to 600 to isolate & get the 5 players behind you to fold. The flop re-raise I have no issues w/ but it sure does put you in a bind & should make you think twice when 1 of your opponents (SB) check flats you on a re-raise. In saying that, check behind him on the turn & see a free card & hope for another ace or jack. He has probably hit a set/straight here & has thrown out the mines for you to step on.

As played though, the turn bet by you IMO should be a bit more. I would be betting 2200-2300 here.

There are so many things he could be doing here after your turn bet. Not many hands beat you here & even less have you crushed. If he was flatting the PF raise w/ a pkt pr of 2's/3's or 45s or even AQ/AK he would be making this same move on the turn so it's tough to say if he has you beat or not. & no stats or info on how they've been playing doesn't help any either.

These are the type of situations that drive me nutz because it's soooo early in the tourney & there would be no reason to get myself involved in a spot like this w/ only AJ. But, that's me. There are spots to take chances when you have 193 big blinds & this isn't one of them IMO.

So, as played I would raise more PF, do the same of flop (situation would be different though by you raising more PF), check the turn & flat a bet by or check behind SB on the river. You would still be left w/ around 5500-6000 chips played this way.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

First of all I never would have raised flop in this spot.

As played though, the turn bet by you IMO should be a bit more. I would be betting 2200-2300 here.

There are so many things he could be doing here after your turn bet. Not many hands beat you here & even less have you crushed. If he was flatting the PF raise w/ a pkt pr of 2's/3's or 45s or even AQ/AK he would be making this same move on the turn so it's tough to say if he has you beat or not. & no stats or info on how they've been playing doesn't help any either.

These are the type of situations that drive me nutz because it's soooo early in the tourney & there would be no reason to get myself involved in a spot like this w/ only AJ. But, that's me. There are spots to take chances when you have 193 big blinds & this isn't one of them IMO.

So, as played I would raise more PF, do the same of flop (situation would be different though by you raising more PF), check the turn & flat a bet by or check behind SB on the river. You would still be left w/ around 5500-6000 chips played this way.

You give a good explanation , but I don't agree with your range for the SB on the turn, I would expect him to 3bet AK OOP maybe even AQ preflop and if he calls AQ preflop I think he would fold vs a cbet and raise in a multiway pot.
Because op the flopplay ,VegasJJ raised after there is a Cbet, I would give the SB a superstrong range after he only calls OOP, so I´d often expect to see a narrowed range 22-33 and 45s unless he is a complete retard to call worse hand there OOP imo.
Here is where alarmbells more often than not should ring.
Even with the J on turn I would have checked behind, because imo if you bet now you really only get value from hands that have you beat.
Riverplay is really tough, but if I would think on the turn that he has most of the time a range that still has my two pair beat. I am still willing to fold and wait for a better spot.

 

[Poker Orifice]

What is our reason for raising on the flop?

 

[vegasjj]

What is our reason for raising on the flop?

Get a PP to fold ... and get Ax to pay me more or fold ... These were the hands I suspected the opponent to hold.
I was praying/hoping that he does not have 22 / 33 - and just totally did not believe that 45 is something someone would have, I also figured AK AQ - is not likely - as he likely would have played differently.

Suited Frenzy,
Thank you very much for taking the time to give such a detailed explanation. Your reasoning about why fold pre - really is teaching me a lot and I am most appreciative for you sharing it and being so kind in the process.
and your read:

The flop re-raise I have no issues w/ but it sure does put you in a bind & should make you think twice when 1 of your opponents (SB) check flats you on a re-raise. In saying that, check behind him on the turn & see a free card & hope for another ace or jack. He has probably hit a set/straight here & has thrown out the mines for you to step on.

was SPOT ON - he had suited 45!

I did not show what I did in the end - too embarrassed - why did i do it...??? I guess I was in my own little dream land. At the time felt I went too far - and prayed ... i do not know ... I hope thanks to help I got from you and MOD, I'll do better next time.
Playing totally outside of my comfort zone sure did not help. I played just a very very few big games (by winning some sat's) and always played way way worse in them, then any other time.

 

[grandpajesse]

I would like if I could get some comments regarding the play at each step as well as the suggestion re post turn.
Much appreciated

Games was 250K Grtee - 3 hrs late reg, this hand was apx after the first hour

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 15,426
SB: 8,330
BB: 11,210
UTG: 4,335
UTG+1: 24,069
UTG+2: 11,522
MP: 7,779
Hero (MP+1): 9,645
CO: 8,113

SB posts SB 25, BB posts BB 50

Pre Flop: (pot: 75) Hero has A♣ J♣

UTG calls 50, UTG+1 raises to 226, fold, fold, Hero calls 226, fold, fold, SB calls 201, fold, fold

Flop: (778, 3 players) 2♠ A♠ 3♣
SB checks, UTG+1 bets 363, Hero raises to 1,115, SB calls 1,115, fold

Turn: (3,371, 2 players) J♥
SB checks, Hero bets 1,685, SB raises to 6,989 and is all-in,

I am guessing that the SB flopped trip 2's or 3's. In a 3way pot when you 3bet the PF aggressor and get cold called out of the SB you should be narrowing villains range down to Ax + FD's + combo draws. I think ott you leading out and getting jammed on makes it a really gross spot. I don't think you can fold here, but having said that I am not fist pump snapping here either. I will scroll down to see if the hand has been posted, but reading this makes me think 2's or 3's PF. I personally would like a small 3bet PF IP to avoid blinds calling and to narrow the hand down to HU. Take the initiative so deep stacked and 4bet as a bluff. You are never getting 5balled by villain OOP super deep early in a mtt. Post flop you should be able to outplay villain IP with the betting lead. You have an Ace and Jack blocker, so you narrow villains 5bet raising range a little. I am assuming by flatting SB made a loose call with 2's or 3's.... but that could have been avoided by playing stronger. #GetGangsterSon

 

[grandpajesse]

Get a PP to fold ... and get Ax to pay me more or fold ... These were the hands I suspected the opponent to hold.
I was praying/hoping that he does not have 22 / 33 - and just totally did not believe that 45 is something someone would have, I also figured AK AQ - is not likely - as he likely would have played differently.

Suited Frenzy,
Thank you very much for taking the time to give such a detailed explanation. Your reasoning about why fold pre - really is teaching me a lot and I am most appreciative for you sharing it and being so kind in the process.
and your read:

was SPOT ON - he had suited 45!

I did not show what I did in the end - too embarrassed - why did i do it...??? I guess I was in my own little dream land. At the time felt I went too far - and prayed ... i do not know ... I hope thanks to help I got from you and MOD, I'll do better next time.
Playing totally outside of my comfort zone sure did not help. I played just a very very few big games (by winning some sat's) and always played way way worse in them, then any other time.

Yeah, ott I figured you were beat. I didn't see 45 as a viable option, but given the fact that villain called in SB given the way the hand played I can see it now. OTT you have repped you have @ least an Ace by going crazy OTF. I really dislike your play the whole way. Sorry If you are set on playing this hand I say 3bet the UTG+1 guy who isolated the UTG limper. You play IP and narrow the hand HU presumably. If you make it say 435 you build a pot that you should be able to win if villain flats. Also blinds can't call given a 3bet has been put in. Given the action pre=flop, your hand is under-repped. I think raising the flop is a crime fwiw. You give our hand strength away, and it is a pointless raise. OTT I think villain has 22 33 A2 A3 A4 A5 or a small % of the time has combo draws like pair + gutshot + FD. I think that is pretty unlikely, as loose players tend to be passive w/out reads. When you get jammed on OTT when you bet again I think A2 A3 AJ 45 22 33 are villains range. Honestly I will stick with what I said earlier ITT.... I would call begrudgingly as you still have 4 clean outs worst case, + A2 A3 are definitely possible. IMO AJ given the way the hand was played, would be the bottom of my calling range.

 

[Poker Orifice]

What is our reason for raising on the flop?

Get a PP to fold ... and get Ax to pay me more or fold ... These were the hands I suspected the opponent to hold.


Why do you want to fold out hands you beat? (hands that would be drawing really slim)

 

[vegasjj]

Get a PP to fold ... and get Ax to pay me more or fold ... These were the hands I suspected the opponent to hold.


Why do you want to fold out hands you beat? (hands that would be drawing really slim)

you know exactly why

I am playing way out of my comfort zone (BI is 215! ) All I want is to survive, steal a pot and survive. I'm scared and I'm trying to compensate for it - end-up overcompensating.
My first reaction after I lost the hand - was deep hurt and disappointment - there was nothing objective about it. All I saw was WHY ON EARTH would that guy be in a raised pot with 45?

I did get beat - up pretty bad by some friends for this play sort of justified. In the end I think I learned some expensive lessons. Hopefully.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Your arguments for betting/raising or not betting/raising are often fundamentally wrong.
Just like the A5s hand you still give the same reasons why you would bet or not , so IMO you didn't learn from it (yet?).

 

[jcla6985]

I would of either flat called the first flop raise or folded, calling the re raise would jot be good. They clearly were not too strong going in and hit something on the flop.

 

[duggs]

preflop overcalls seems fine given how likely this is to go multiway, flop is never a raise. turn you binked so just go with it, sucks when he has AA but whatevs

 

[Jblocher1]

Villain looks a lot like AK/AQ to Me. I am definitely calling that all in. Once you get the two pair I think your forced into the pot. I'm not a huge fan of the flop bet either I probably check call the flop. See if I improve in the turn. I am almost never folding turn unless I have a sturdy read I'm beat

 

[Justinawe12]

You should have satty'd into this tourney if the BI was too much. Sure, the prize pool is nice but playing with scared money is never +EV! You're better off playing your regular BI tournies and playing some sats into this then direct buyin (which I assume you did) . As for the hand, preflop call is fine as AJs flops really well. That's same reason 45s guy calls, as he can flop monster hands that it's hard to opponents on, like a flopped straight on low board. Flop bet is fine, prefer calling as you want to keep in the hands that you beat. Only hand that might call that you're ahead of is AT and maybe a couple other medium aces. When you flop the J you crush majority of hands, so bet is obviously good. I know it's tough and the hand looks good, but you gotta find a fold when guy moves all in. Still have a ton of chips left and the times he is bluffing here are few and far between. He's not risking his tourney with anything less then a set here. Hope I helped and gave a little insight, these spots can be tough sometimes. GL at the tables

 

[vegasjj]

You should have satty'd into this tourney if the BI was too much. Sure, the prize pool is nice but playing with scared money is never +EV! You're better off playing your regular BI tournies and playing some sats into this then direct buyin (which I assume you did) . As for the hand, preflop call is fine as AJs flops really well. That's same reason 45s guy calls, as he can flop monster hands that it's hard to opponents on, like a flopped straight on low board. Flop bet is fine, prefer calling as you want to keep in the hands that you beat. Only hand that might call that you're ahead of is AT and maybe a couple other medium aces. When you flop the J you crush majority of hands, so bet is obviously good. I know it's tough and the hand looks good, but you gotta find a fold when guy moves all in. Still have a ton of chips left and the times he is bluffing here are few and far between. He's not risking his tourney with anything less then a set here. Hope I helped and gave a little insight, these spots can be tough sometimes. GL at the tables

Yes you did help - in retrospect - I can say this was how I was thinking - and I guess a preflop fold would have been the best - and definitely should have folded to the all-in... just pure stupid to call it. and you are right I did sat into the game - my true cost was $4... (was very lucky) but once in it... it really has as much value as anyone that paid for it full price. Was a great experience - and I learned among other things that I am not ready mentally for this BI size.

 

[twiztedtony]

My idea of it if he had called a preflop raise of 300 he had a hand that wasnt four five. Probably had a small pair. or even ace rag.
He probably had a set. even hitting your j on the river that was a good fold because it was all in. You don't want to waste your whole chipstack with two pair.

 

[IceRedefined111]

As played instafold IMO. You can only beat semi bluffs at this point realistically. I personally don't like calling pre because of the reverse implied odds. The only time that you're gonna know where your at is when you flop top 2, trip Jacks, a flush, or broadway. Fold and save yourself the opportunity to make a bad decision. As played fold and pick a way better spot to get the last 40% of a starting stack in with. Especially this early in the tourney you have a lot of equity left.

 

[IceRedefined111]

My idea of it if he had called a preflop raise of 300 he had a hand that wasnt four five. Probably had a small pair. or even ace rag.
He probably had a set. even hitting your j on the river that was a good fold because it was all in. You don't want to waste your whole chipstack with two pair.

Why would he not ever have 45 suited here from the blind? A lot of people will call w suited no gappers there. Not saying its smart but not smart to discount that either. Its always in his range here unless you know hes super tight.