$2 NLHE: QQ with K on flop

[jaded848]

$2 NL HE: QQ with K on flop

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 40/14/1.3

I absolutely hate when this happens. I bet big preflop, get a caller, and then I'm looking at an overcard on the flop. Not much info on villain, still early in the SnG. Villain checked to me...I bet to see where he stood and he called. He checked the turn as well, and I checked for pot control. Fires a bet of almost half the pot on the river. It is possible he was on the a missed flush draw, but considering he bet into me after I had fired into the pot twice, he could have either Kx or any set (even something like QJ would not surprise me). Fold or call?



Stacks:
* BB with 2615
* UTG with 2115
* MP with 830
* CO with 950
* BTN with 1355
* SB with 2490

Blinds:
Site: full tilt poker
* * Dealt to UTG:Q♦ Q♣
* * Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* * BB calls [60]
* * Hero raises to 200
* * 4 players fold.
* * BB calls [140]
* * Total folds this street: 4
* * Potsize: 460
Flop:
* * 7♥ K♦ 9♥
* * BB checks
* * Hero bets [280]
* * BB calls [280]
* * Potsize: 1020
Turn:
* * 10♦
* * BB checks
* * Hero checks
* * Potsize: 1020
River:
* * 9♠
* * BB bets [480]
????

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

 

[S93]

I dont c-bet this flop because of https://www.cardschat.com/f49/wa-wb-concept-76525/ .
Sure its kinda wet flop and u can make a case for wa/wb not applying completly since your geting called by some str8/FD but our equity on the flop isnt to awsome against thouse draws since most of the draws are some sort of combo draws(FD with over,str8 and FD).

I much rather check behind on the flop, and the call turn if villain bets(and fold river if he barrels) or bet the turn my self since if villain checks two street after we check back he most likly doesnt have a king and we can go for value against underpairs,9x,Tx and thouse draws cause the most of the draws missed(apart from QJ) and the FD just lost alot of equity.

The river is so meh we only beat a bluff but our turn checks looks like where giving up so villains is probably bettin 100% of his range here.
I probably still fold even if where geting a good price just cause where still in decent shape if we fold and there are much better spots to be had imo.
Wouldnt blame u for bluff catching here thou.

I bet to see where he stood and he called.

This is bad logic imo.
What information exactly did u gain from that bet?

There are only 3 reasons to bet.
For value(what worse hand calls)
Bluff(what better hand folds)
Protection(what draw are u scared of)
A better hand is never folding on the flop but worse hand and draws might call.

 

[jaded848]

I dont c-bet this flop because of https://www.cardschat.com/f49/wa-wb-concept-76525/ .
Sure its kinda wet flop and u can make a case for wa/wb not applying completly since your geting called by some str8/FD but our equity on the flop isnt to awsome against thouse draws since most of the draws are some sort of combo draws(FD with over,str8 and FD).

I much rather check behind on the flop, and the call turn if villain bets(and fold river if he barrels) or bet the turn my self since if villain checks two street after we check back he most likly doesnt have a king and we can go for value against underpairs,9x,Tx and thouse draws cause the most of the draws missed(apart from QJ) and the FD just lost alot of equity.

The river is so meh we only beat a bluff but our turn checks looks like where giving up so villains is probably bettin 100% of his range here.
I probably still fold even if where geting a good price just cause where still in decent shape if we fold and there are much better spots to be had imo.
Wouldnt blame u for bluff catching here thou.


This is bad logic imo.
What information exactly did u gain from that bet?

There are only 3 reasons to bet.
For value(what worse hand calls)
Bluff(what better hand folds)
Protection(what draw are u scared of)
A better hand is never folding on the flop but worse hand and draws might call.

My fear was that if I checked on the flop, my showing of weakness would be likely to lead to a bet on the turn. The turn bet could mean anything because he could be trying to steal the pot, and I would have no way of knowing if he was. By betting on the flop, I knew he had something worth sticking around for. If i checked the flop and he bet 3/4 of the pot on the turn, would I have to call that?

I admit another part of my reason for betting was the wetness of the flop, but I do see what you are saying with our equity not doing so hot against those hands.

Edit: Should have read that link before I posted I see now that checking and calling the turn bet is the better option. But again, should this be done even if the bet is large (3/4 pot or higher?)

 

[S93]

Well think about it this way, if u bet the flop he plays perfectly against us.
He folds his missed hands(for this example lets asume he never bluff raises us),calls with his draws and calls with Kx.

If on the other hand we check the flop and he bets a 2s turn, now he is stil betting his Kx hands, probably some of his draws BUT he will bluff the turn sometimes exactly because he percives your check on the flop as weakness.
So instead of playing against a range that mostly has us dominated or has lots of outs against us he now also has a large part of his range we dominate.


And it cost us roughly the same amount betting the flop as checking and calling the turn but now where all of a suddon not crushed by his range when he puts money in the pot.

If he then bets the river again u can safely fold un-improved since imo most 2$ players that run a 40/14 are not going to be double barrel bluffing u .

 

[jaded848]

Regarding WA/WB....what if he bets the flop? Am I done with the hand?

 

[S93]

WA/WB mostly refers to when your in postion so if villain bets into u its a donk bets and donk bets are usualy weak at the micros(draws or second pair type hands imo).
So no if he donks into u i would probably call one street but that obvs. also depends on the player and if i have seen him donk bet before(thats why i allways note what players donk bet with if the hand reaches showdown).