$2.50 NLHE STT Turbo: Should I have CR?

2pearAAKK

2pearAAKK

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(BTN) $2285 - VP:28 PFR:19 AF:4.5 W:25|100 STL:50|50 3B:0| CB:80|0 N:1812 STK:+1 hands:36
(SB) $2065 - VP:13 PFR:5 AF:1.5 W:17|100 STL:50|75 3B:0| CB:0|0 N:360 STK:-2 Hands:39
Me(BB) $1712 - VP:23 PFR:13 AF:6.0 W:50|50 STL:60|50 3B:7| CB:0|50 N:-796 STK:-1 Hands:39
(UTG) $2704 - VP:24 PFR:19 AF:Inf. W:60|67 STL:60|100 3B:0|0 CB:100| N:-331 STK:+1 Hands:37
(MP) $1300 - VP:8 PFR:0 AF:Inf. W:33|100 STL:0|100 3B:0| CB: N:90 STK:+1 Hands:39
(CO) $3434 - VP:21 PFR:18 AF:1.0 W:40|50 STL:50|100 3B:0|0 CB:0|100 N:-60 STK:-2 Hands:39

Pre Flop: Me(BB) with [7d,Jd]
(UTG) folds, (MP) folds, (CO) folds, (BTN) raises 160, (SB) folds, Me(BB) calls 80

Flop: (5h,4d,Jc) (2 players)
Me(BB) checks, (BTN) bets 240, Me(BB) calls 240

Turn: Qd (2 players)
Me(BB) bets 480, (BTN) raises 960, Me(BB) raises 832, (BTN) calls 352

River: (Ah)

Final:
Me(BB) shows [7d,Jd]
(BTN) shows [Qh,Ad]
(BTN) wins 3464

I know I had 20bb in this round,I think this guy was raising my bb quite a bit.
 
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Jako7600

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Ok so I like your defend in the BB, and since you think he's raising wide we don't have too much information on his hand.

Top pair on flop - at this point you're ahead unless he has J8+ or JJ+ (he could have a set of 4's or 5's too). I think I prefer calling on flop to check raising. If we call, then we allow his bluffs to continue on turns. If we check raise, most of his bluffs will fold and we will only get looked up by worse. So the check raise isn't going to win us any more money (except maybe against 88-TT). So I think the call is fine.

I don't like the lead on the turn. The Q is not a good card for you and he should know that as well (as you represented a J on flop). The only hand that will be calling your lead is one that has you beat. However, by checking, you can allow his bluffs to continue firing. I would check call this turn, and then on Ah river I would check (hoping for showdown) and fold to a bet - we have to consider at that point what we actually beat. The only hands that weren't ahead of us on turn were Ax that's bluffing and 66-TT. The Ax is now value betting river and the smaller pairs would probably be checking as they have showdown value.

Check raise on flop is fine but I prefer your call. Don't lead on the Q turn
 
2pearAAKK

2pearAAKK

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Jako7600 thanks for the feed back.
 
CRStals

CRStals

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In my opinion, I'll disagree partially with Jako.

Your defend of the BB with a 2BB raise is good, but I feel when you hit the flop you have to bet. Why? You only started with 21BB, and had a stack of roughly 1550 with a pot of 500. You're not short stacked, but, you're not sitting comfortable either. Villian has you covered too, and I'd rather find out where I'm at on the flop. Only way to do that is to lead out. I don't like the CR because it's too cute in this position, and you don't really have the chips to do it unless you check-raised all in.

I think you would of taken the pot then & there by a bet & it's better to win this hand on the flop then lose it on the river.

The risk by not betting & only calling the flop is exactly what happens on the turn...you can't lead there and find yourself in the position of being in no-man's land. Which is again why I'd push to bet on the flop and take it right then and there.
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

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I'm folding this preflop. Why do you want to play OOP with a weak speculative hand vs someone that has you covered?


As played, I check/call the flop, check/call the turn and check/fold the river if he bets with that card on the board.
 
fletchdad

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I dont like the call pre. Why get involved with a hand that is gonna possibly get you in difficult spots, especially OOP?

Call OTF is fine, but why bet that turn card?
 
fletchdad

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I think this hand is posted twice.?.
 
2pearAAKK

2pearAAKK

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I'm folding this preflop. Why do you want to play OOP with a weak speculative hand vs someone that has you covered?


As played, I check/call the flop, check/call the turn and check/fold the river if he bets with that card on the board.
Ya I know...I ask myself this after i played the hand,it just when you playing you go into auto pilot and not aware of stack size.
 
2pearAAKK

2pearAAKK

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In my opinion, I'll disagree partially with Jako.

Your defend of the BB with a 2BB raise is good, but I feel when you hit the flop you have to bet. Why? You only started with 21BB, and had a stack of roughly 1550 with a pot of 500. You're not short stacked, but, you're not sitting comfortable either. Villian has you covered too, and I'd rather find out where I'm at on the flop. Only way to do that is to lead out. I don't like the CR because it's too cute in this position, and you don't really have the chips to do it unless you check-raised all in.

I think you would of taken the pot then & there by a bet & it's better to win this hand on the flop then lose it on the river.

The risk by not betting & only calling the flop is exactly what happens on the turn...you can't lead there and find yourself in the position of being in no-man's land. Which is again why I'd push to bet on the flop and take it right then and there.
Interesting point, 20bb in 9sng tho in 40\80 rnd 5min rnd.
 
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WiZZiM

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this guy doesn't seem to be particularly loose preflop in raising, so folding is totally fine preflop, especially if you get stuck on what to do in these spots postflop....

we're always going to be playing relatively small SPRs here, so we want to be just keeping the pot small or controlling the pot from the flop onwards either works here.

So i would either c/c c/c c/f or c/c c/f if i felt his range is pretty strong or if the card that falls above a J hits him well.

or

i would take control from the flop, by either c/r or simply leading the flop small. C/r i would only use when i'm pretty confidant that this player would overplay second best hands, however there are not that many second best hands considering our weak kicker and lack of lower cards in his range. So leading overall i think would be best here to take control of the size of the pot and it also makes our decision pretty simple if he raises us at any stage. These hands are pretty much never played to stack someone, we're simply defending vs wide ranges so they either leave us alone in future hands or we make more of a profit from calling than folding or they have considerable tells postflop that we can take advantage of.
 
2pearAAKK

2pearAAKK

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this guy doesn't seem to be particularly loose preflop in raising, so folding is totally fine preflop, especially if you get stuck on what to do in these spots postflop....

we're always going to be playing relatively small SPRs here, so we want to be just keeping the pot small or controlling the pot from the flop onwards either works here.

So i would either c/c c/c c/f or c/c c/f if i felt his range is pretty strong or if the card that falls above a J hits him well.

or

i would take control from the flop, by either c/r or simply leading the flop small. C/r i would only use when i'm pretty confidant that this player would overplay second best hands, however there are not that many second best hands considering our weak kicker and lack of lower cards in his range. So leading overall i think would be best here to take control of the size of the pot and it also makes our decision pretty simple if he raises us at any stage. These hands are pretty much never played to stack someone, we're simply defending vs wide ranges so they either leave us alone in future hands or we make more of a profit from calling than folding or they have considerable tells postflop that we can take advantage of.
I get caught up and not realize to ask myself do I want to play a small pot or a big pot...what u fig are hands simliar to this one that are good defenders vs wide bu ranges?soild input tho thanks.
 
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WiZZiM

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j7s isn't a bad one to defend, but it's probably getting near the bottom of defending ranges. However i see nothing in his stats to indicate that's he's incredibly loose. You can certainly get away with it, but if you have postflop leaks then calls like this one just get caught out too much postflop.

Like this guy has a 50% steal rate, so in stealing positions he's raised 50% of the time, out of 30ish hands played he's likely been in stealing positions like 10 times, so out of those ten times he's raised 5 times. So the stats are still basically skewed. However i would think that this player is slightly looser than average.

ANyways before i babble anymore, what you really want to be calling with here are hands that can dominate his range, this hand is pretty close and it's suited so it has some playability. But the differance between folding and calling here would be pretty minimal which is why i said folding is totally fine.
 
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