$2.50 NLHE STT Deep Stacked: $2.50 NLHE STT:

[thatgreekdude]

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/8491998_96B52C5F2E

Is this standard? Final table sitting on 12BBs, and i really play to win not to move up the payout structure but making a bit more than $6.87 for 3 hours of play would of been nice

 

[byrnsiey330]

On the button, this is a open-shove and you're just hoping for a race against two overcards. Just unlucky that the BB was holding something like that.

 

[WiZZiM]

is this a 180 man?

in any case, it's totally fine to open shove this. our trueBB stack is around 10 bb's, not 12. However an alternate line if the blinds are really tight is to just min-raise and fold. If you are really comfortable postflop in small SPR situations, then min raising this is the best line. However, keep in mind if we are min-raising this, it's a pure bluff and we might as well have a dinner napkin for cards because if called our 5's play horribly, so don't get attached to them, i'd actually prefer to raise something like 74s here. If this is a regular speed game, then open shoving becomes worse because we have so much more time to let our skill come through, so open-raising here becomes the best play.


The key to knowing weather or not to "play for the win" or "to move up the pay structure" is the presence of short stacks. IF, in this game we had 1-2 short stacks with around 2-3bb's, then that's a signal to you that you should be looking to play a little more cautiously and try to move up the payouts. It's not the case here, no extreme shortstacks present, so go for that win!

 

[thatgreekdude]

yes my friend it is

 

[Arjonius]

Unless there's some kind of situational dynamic that suggests doing otherwise, I'm shoving. For instance, if I've been shoving often enough to think the blinds will widen their calling ranges appropriately, I'd at least think about opening small.

 

[Scrover]

Shove is what most people will do. I would 2.25x raise, unless you will almost never get folds, then a 3x raise is what I would do so that if something big happens, you're not getting two to one on a call. If you can't get folds from that, then I would find a shove there although I'm always reluctant to let luck decide and not my play. I feel myself that 12BB and 55's don't fit my range for shoving the button because I think it's just a bit too much. If we had something like 9BB, then I would go and shove this.

 

[jdeliverer]

Shove is what most people will do. I would 2.25x raise, unless you will almost never get folds, then a 3x raise is what I would do so that if something big happens, you're not getting two to one on a call. If you can't get folds from that, then I would find a shove there although I'm always reluctant to let luck decide and not my play. I feel myself that 12BB and 55's don't fit my range for shoving the button because I think it's just a bit too much. If we had something like 9BB, then I would go and shove this.

If you don't want to shove, the standard when you are this short is to minraise, especially from the button. This allows you to have a minraise-folding range if you want to steal wider.

However, in this spot the majority of your value from 55 is its fold equity, since you want to fold out the hands like AT or KJ where you are a slight favorite. You aren't folding to a 3-bet anyway, and your hand is difficult to play postflop, so it's probably better to open shove.

 

[WiZZiM]

the standard play here is to open shove, just to get that part right.

You don't really want to be raising here with 55 for value, it's basically a pure bluff steal, and you may as well be raise/folding here with 72 off suit, because it plays about as well postflop.

If your not comfortable with playing postflop, then just shove like you did, it's the easiest +EV play you can make, and you cannot make any more mistakes in the hand.

 

[Scrover]

I do like playing postflop, it's the way I roll. It's just my personal preference and the way I would have played it if I was in that situation. We have position on the opponent and with a 2.25x raise (I find it steals much more often than a min raise) we can just c-bet and take the pot down a good amount of the time. But if we raise 3x, we can just jam the flop unless you believe that the opponent has hit this flop (obviously if we don't improve as well) and we can just take it down to showdown hopefully. We could even get a fold from bottom pair (yes, bottom pair, but getting a fold from any pair is an achievement) because bottom pair could be better than our pair. If we get donked into, then we can fold unless we hit a set.

Knowing me, AT and KJ is a call most of the time from the button for me. But you know, I have exceptions to my rules.

 

[WiZZiM]

I do like playing postflop, it's the way I roll. It's just my personal preference and the way I would have played it if I was in that situation. We have position on the opponent and with a 2.25x raise (I find it steals much more often than a min raise) we can just c-bet and take the pot down a good amount of the time. But if we raise 3x, we can just jam the flop unless you believe that the opponent has hit this flop (obviously if we don't improve as well) and we can just take it down to showdown hopefully. We could even get a fold from bottom pair (yes, bottom pair, but getting a fold from any pair is an achievement) because bottom pair could be better than our pair. If we get donked into, then we can fold unless we hit a set.

Knowing me, AT and KJ is a call most of the time from the button for me. But you know, I have exceptions to my rules.

ya, depends on the blinds alot as to what i would do exactly, i may even open fold this sometimes against really loose players. but i agree with you, apart from when you say raising is the standard play, standard way to play this is to use adj bb and shove it preflop, that is what i'd say 99% of regs would do in this spot, no matter what the blinds are calling with shoving the 55 is going to be +cEV...

All i'm getting at, is that if we're happy to raise this, we should be happy to raise just about anything, becuase two blank cards play about as well as 55 does. it has very small showdown value/set value, but realistically, it has very little value and we're essentially just bluffing with it. So if your game plan is to raise in this spot, you should be raising just about anything.

 

[Scrover]

ya, depends on the blinds alot as to what i would do exactly, i may even open fold this sometimes against really loose players. but i agree with you, apart from when you say raising is the standard play, standard way to play this is to use adj bb and shove it preflop, that is what i'd say 99% of regs would do in this spot, no matter what the blinds are calling with shoving the 55 is going to be +cEV...

All i'm getting at, is that if we're happy to raise this, we should be happy to raise just about anything, becuase two blank cards play about as well as 55 does. it has very small showdown value/set value, but realistically, it has very little value and we're essentially just bluffing with it. So if your game plan is to raise in this spot, you should be raising just about anything.

I understand what you're getting at in the sense that a small pocket pair plays as well as almost anything else, but for it to play the same, we have to have five cards dealt (in the sense that our 55's are up against 96o, or T7o etc). We only get to see three and the chances of flopping two pair or better (ignoring straights, flushes and straight flushes) is like 3.5%. Of course, adding in suited cards and connected cards would increase this, but it's much more likely to flop a set with a pocket pair than it is to flop something huge with 82o.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

yes, shoving the button here with 55 is standard.

I will mix it up a bit though in a spot like this; probably shoving 75% of the time and making a standard raise 25% of the time. If, I was one of the shorter stacks at the table sitting on around 6-7k then absolutely I'm shoving no question.

Your stack size is just a tiny bit too big to shove for my comfort zone. I like to get a little more play out of a 12bb stack, especially with the button meaning I get to see 5 or 6 more free hands.

If I took the raise line, I would probably raise it to about 1,050 or 1,100. Unless I had been raising a lot and I felt like they were gonna start playing back at me, then I might shove first to take their options away.