$2.50 NLHE MTT: Too spewy... Just call the 4bet instead of 5bet shove

[EvertonGirl]

PokerStars - $2.28+$0.22|10/20 Ante 3 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 1,337 (VPIP: 9.09, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 11)
Hero (CO): 1,317
BTN: 1,262 (VPIP: 9.09, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
SB: 2,055 (VPIP: 90.91, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 11)
BB: 1,823 (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 11)
UTG: 1,827 (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
UTG+1: 897 (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
MP: 1,474 (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)

8 players post ante of 3, SB posts SB 10, BB posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 54) Hero has A:club: K:spade:

fold, fold, MP raises to 60, fold, Hero raises to 180, fold, fold, BB raises to 780, fold, Hero raises to 1,314 and is all-in, BB calls 534

Flop: (2,722, 2 players) 7:club: 5:spade: 3:club:

Turn: (2,722, 2 players) 6:spade:

River: (2,722, 2 players) 2:heart:

BB shows J:heart: J:spade: (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 57%, Flop 70%, Turn 82%)
Hero shows A:club: K:spade: (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 43%, Flop 30%, Turn 18%)
BB wins 2,722

I am thinking yea... I took a risk with 66bbs with a draw hand... I looked at the guys stats and was thinking he is quite a loose player and 3betting a bit wide. My image would of looked like I was a passive player and I was thinking he may fold if he didn't have AA, KK.

 

[WiZZiM]

calling is the same as shoving basically, so your real options here are to either fold or raise. Once we call, we should know we are committed to the pot, so we're never folding even if we miss postflop.

also when you have a player who 3bets too much, you don't want them to fold, you want them to call... also, he's never folding here after investing such a big piece of his stack, he already raised 700, he likely will not fold for 500 more.

fwiw, in these low level games if they look even the slightest bit loose/bad then i'm happy to go with hands in spots like this. But the only thing is that when players raise so much it's almost always a strong paired hand like JJ QQ AK AA KK etc. So really, i'd be sigh folding here almost always, but i wouldn't be unhappy to get it in vs this particular player, don't think you can really make too much of a bad decision here, but the only way it's profitable to get it in is if he raises with hands we crush like AQ AJ KQ KJ etc. If you don't think he raises with those hands it's a pretty clear fold.

 

[EvertonGirl]

calling is the same as shoving basically, so your real options here are to either fold or raise. Once we call, we should know we are committed to the pot, so we're never folding even if we miss postflop.

also when you have a player who 3bets too much, you don't want them to fold, you want them to call... also, he's never folding here after investing such a big piece of his stack, he already raised 700, he likely will not fold for 500 more.

fwiw, in these low level games if they look even the slightest bit loose/bad then i'm happy to go with hands in spots like this. But the only thing is that when players raise so much it's almost always a strong paired hand like JJ QQ AK AA KK etc. So really, i'd be sigh folding here almost always, but i wouldn't be unhappy to get it in vs this particular player, don't think you can really make too much of a bad decision here, but the only way it's profitable to get it in is if he raises with hands we crush like AQ AJ KQ KJ etc. If you don't think he raises with those hands it's a pretty clear fold.

Thanks, I always like to read your input.

Yea I had that thought it is either a shove or fold after reading back my analysis on how I played. I didn't have much read on him... My thinking was he could be 3betting with AJ, AQ sort of hands. I also thought his 4bet was a bit high and looked abit suspect to me thinking he is probably 4betting light. I now have a note on him that he 3/4bet strong with JJ sort of hands

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

We're basically readless at only 11 hands, so in that case I switch to default player tendencies. Facing such a big cold 4bet, I'd just fold.

Think of it from his perspective. a player raises. another player 3bets. you look down at XX and 4bet half your stack. What does XX look like in your mind?

To me, it's a pretty narrow range. In fact, before I read your spoiler when I saw his HUGE 4bet I immediately thought "Jacks" because bad/new players are so scared to play jacks; they don't know what to do, so they just raise huge. They usually raise a more normal size with AA,KK or AK. Some players will also raise huge with TT and QQ. But it's almost a dead give away for "big, but not premium pair" IMO.

 

[WiZZiM]

We're basically readless at only 11 hands, so in that case I switch to default player tendencies.

Yes true i missed that point

 

[joe777]

I always fold AK to 4bet,too much for a speculative hands.

 

[Tomasz]

Your oponnent play incredible sizing , 780 >>> crazy sizing >>> light statistik after 11 hands >>> weak player >>> weak player plays very strong with top top range , if you call you are very often underdog i think so 60/40 spot

easy fold pre

 

[EvertonGirl]

We're basically readless at only 11 hands, so in that case I switch to default player tendencies. Facing such a big cold 4bet, I'd just fold.

Think of it from his perspective. a player raises. another player 3bets. you look down at XX and 4bet half your stack. What does XX look like in your mind?

To me, it's a pretty narrow range. In fact, before I read your spoiler when I saw his HUGE 4bet I immediately thought "Jacks" because bad/new players are so scared to play jacks; they don't know what to do, so they just raise huge. They usually raise a more normal size with AA,KK or AK. Some players will also raise huge with TT and QQ. But it's almost a dead give away for "big, but not premium pair" IMO.

Thanks for this, makes perfect sense

 

[EvertonGirl]

Thanks for the all advice guys, much appreciated