$2.35 NLHE MTT: MTT 4-table 6-max: Pairs when M is ~10

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

Hi all, I've picked up playing again for a bit and find myself a bit rusty on what best to do in these situations:


Table #43762802 - Tournament #25302459 Table #4
Starting Hand #2025952332
Start time of hand: 06 Mar 2012 13:11:16
Last Hand #2025951666
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: TOURNAMENT
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now 50 / 100
Button is at seat 1
Seat 1: RogueAus - 2,640
Seat 2: KingDongKeefy - 3,350
Seat 3: yvan007 - 1,480
Seat 4: o0OspelbrekerO0o - 1,380
Seat 5: DenisLaMalisse - 3,700
Seat 6: rafaela2004 - 1,700
Shuffling Deck
Moving Button to seat 2
yvan007 posts small blind (50)
o0OspelbrekerO0o posts big blind (100)
Dealing Cards
Dealing [8 c][8 d] to o0OspelbrekerO0o
DenisLaMalisse folds
rafaela2004 folds
RogueAus calls 100
KingDongKeefy raises to 400
yvan007 raises to 1,480 (all-in)
o0OspelbrekerO0o ???

No real reads, KingDongKeefy was recently moved to the table. yvan007 seemed to be seeing a lot of flops and did weird stuff like open shoving UTG with a full stack early on.

Table #43762802 - Tournament #25302459 Table #4
Starting Hand #2025954228
Start time of hand: 06 Mar 2012 13:15:03
Last Hand #2025953917
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: TOURNAMENT
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now 50 / 100
Button is at seat 5
Seat 1: RogueAus - 2,340
Seat 2: KingDongKeefy - 2,270
Seat 3: yvan007 - 3,060
Seat 4: o0OspelbrekerO0o - 1,480
Seat 5: DenisLaMalisse - 3,550
Seat 6: rafaela2004 - 1,550
Shuffling Deck
Moving Button to seat 6
RogueAus posts small blind (50)
KingDongKeefy posts big blind (100)
Dealing Cards
Dealing [2 s][2 c] to o0OspelbrekerO0o
yvan007 folds
o0OspelbrekerO0o ???

Again no real reads. It's a loose table, lots of limped pots and lots of calls to EP raises and foldings to c-bets. Pretty regular I suppose.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

fold and.. fold.

hand 1: a guy you have no reads on 4xed and then someones shoved over for a 1000 more with no fold equity really, 88 no good imo.

when people open shove in mtts i think its because they aren't comfortable postflop tbh, i tend to do with a 20bb stack downwards just because i cant play postflop that short.

hand 2: you can ship, but your utg+1 (dunno what that is in 6 max) and if your called its a sweat, i prefer shipping with something better but others will disagree.

especially if everyones loose, you get called by 67o and its still 50/50..

 

[David G]

Yea, Cambell's pretty spot on. I think the 2nd hand is closer but he basically says such. I think a shove is fine or a fold with hand 2, and when it's close like that I'll look at other factors and since you said the table is aggressive pre but passive post, I think there's more value in folding and just finding a spot later from the blinds or w/e where you can just take a pot down post after everyone's seen that flop they so dearly want to.

As a pure equity based calc though, and just for the hand, not thinking of future hands, I think the shove with 22 is a little +ev over a fold because a lot of the time you win the blinds, more than half the time when called you're a flip, and only a small amount of the time are you in really bad shape.

 

[momfight]

Hand 1: This looks like KingDongKeefy is trying to steal, villian goes for a re-steal, I would have called here for sure with pocket 88s. I don't think you can afford to fold hands like this with 14bbs in a 6-max.

Hand 2: I would have shoved here too.

 

[duggs]

fold and.. fold.

hand 1: a guy you have no reads on 4xed and then someones shoved over for a 1000 more with no fold equity really, 88 no good imo.

when people open shove in mtts i think its because they aren't comfortable postflop tbh, i tend to do with a 20bb stack downwards just because i cant play postflop that short.

hand 2: you can ship, but your utg+1 (dunno what that is in 6 max) and if your called its a sweat, i prefer shipping with something better but others will disagree.

especially if everyones loose, you get called by 67o and its still 50/50..

not disagreeing with you but just thought it should be mentioned that bet sizing doesnt mean much given the buy in,

 

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

Sorry for the late reply, I've been out of the country for a while.
Thanks all of you for the answers! I folded in both scenarios.

First hand, I figured if I'd call, KingDongKeefy would not fold often. Best case would be going up against a lower pair and two overs, but a significant chance at having to beat another (two) over(s) or even being dominated by a higher pair. A few less BBs would've made it a no-brainer call for me, but I started wondering where to draw the line. To those agreeing with the fold, what would be the range to call with in your opinion?

For the second hand I pretty much went with the thought process you guys outlined. 4 bigger stacks than mine left to act at a loose table. At least one call seemed probable, two not unlikely. In the CO I think I'd push.

Thanks again!

Hand 1 result:
I folded, KDK called with KJ and yvan007 flipped over 66 which held. 88 would've won the hand.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

not disagreeing with you but just thought it should be mentioned that bet sizing doesnt mean much given the buy in,

so 'given the buy in' players at this level don't balance their pre flop opens, its weighted towards the strength of their hand.

so.. 4x = strength + guy ships over with no FE = 88 is no good.

 

[shaazy712]

when people shove most time is to get the A rags and K rags out of the way ..also because they are trying to double up

 

[duggs]

so 'given the buy in' players at this level don't balance their pre flop opens, its weighted towards the strength of their hand.

so.. 4x = strength + guy ships over with no FE = 88 is no good.

completely agree, i just mean this guy might be 4xing his entire range, and doing retarded things like 4x/folding once in a while, agree with fold

 

[dwbrown7680]

Yeah given the open and shove in front of you in hand one you should probably fold that. In the 2nd hand you can justify opening with 2s but you can just as easily justify folding as well.