$2.25 NLHE: Is this bad luck or what?

[andosalado]

$2.25 NL HE: Is this bad luck or what?

ull Tilt poker game #13407047144: $2 + 0.25 Sit & Go (99221940), Table 1 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:31:08 ET - 2009/07/15
Seat 1: jughead35 (1,640)
Seat 2: 1mmortalpoker (1,485)
Seat 3: threes and four (1,060), is sitting out
Seat 4: yvo2121 (975)
Seat 5: ACuva117 (1,820)
Seat 6: 20kingranch08 (2,255)
Seat 7: luddo (1,510)
Seat 8: andosalado (1,270)
Seat 9: fcbrunoy (1,485)
ACuva117 posts the small blind of 25
20kingranch08 posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andosalado [Ac 4c]
luddo folds
andosalado calls 50
fcbrunoy folds
jughead35 folds
1mmortalpoker folds
threes and four folds
yvo2121 folds
ACuva117 calls 25
20kingranch08 checks
*** FLOP *** [2s 2c Jc]
ACuva117 checks
20kingranch08 checks
andosalado bets 50
ACuva117 folds
20kingranch08 calls 50
actionman 03 (Observer): fait tapie
*** TURN *** [2s 2c Jc] [Kd]
20kingranch08 checks
andosalado checks
*** RIVER *** [2s 2c Jc Kd] [8c]
20kingranch08 bets 100
andosalado raises to 300
20kingranch08 raises to 550
andosalado has 15 seconds left to act
andosalado raises to 1,170, and is all in
20kingranch08 calls 620
*** SHOW DOWN ***
andosalado shows [Ac 4c] a flush, Ace high
20kingranch08 shows [8h 2h] a full house, Twos full of Eights
20kingranch08 wins the pot (2,590) with a full house, Twos full of Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,590 | Rake 0
Board: [2s 2c Jc Kd 8c]
Seat 1: jughead35 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: 1mmortalpoker didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: threes and four didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: yvo2121 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: ACuva117 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: 20kingranch08 (big blind) showed [8h 2h] and won (2,590) with a full house, Twos full of Eights
Seat 7: luddo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: andosalado showed [Ac 4c] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 9: fcbrunoy didn't bet (folded)

 

[JustRaiseTheBlinds]

First...fold pre-flop.
A4 UTG+1 is a fold.
Second...Don't limp in.

After this board...yes it's bad luck.

 

[JohnnyFronts]

^^ Yeah, that.
Plus, its not bad luck. You actually were never ahead in the hand at any point.

 

[Jayson745]

I think he meant that it was bad luck the river card that came. Gives them both monster hands with his behind. Pretty much the only card that could have dropped that makes him go broke.

I say yes, that was bad luck.

 

[guitargarth]

It's a tough break, but that's poker.

 

[liv3player]

umm

^^ Yeah, that.
Plus, its not bad luck. You actually were never ahead in the hand at any point.

Last time I checked A4 was way ahead of 82 pre-flop.Not sure though I could be very wrong and probably am.

 

[andosalado]

I think he meant that it was bad luck the river card that came. Gives them both monster hands with his behind. Pretty much the only card that could have dropped that makes him go broke.

I say yes, that was bad luck.

Yes, that was my question. If i didn't hit the flush on the river nothing happens. But how i was supposed to know that he has 82.

 

[baghead]

you could have bet a bit bigger post flop that would have given you a bit more info on where your apponent was at you could have also just of flat called the trip raise (very suspect)

 

[StormRaven]

First...fold pre-flop.
A4 UTG+1 is a fold.
Second...Don't limp in.

After this board...yes it's bad luck.

^^^This. You shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place. If you were in lp and it's folded around to you I'd raise but utg+1 is a bad limp. Yes, the river was very bad luck for you, no river no shoving.

 

[Poker Orifice]

^^^This. You shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place. If you were in lp and it's folded around to you I'd raise but utg+1 is a bad limp. Yes, the river was very bad luck for you, no river no shoving.

Well I disagree ^^ because it depends upon the table. If you're playing on a table where there's a TON of limping and table is really passive.. it's not so bad to limp in with A-Xs in early levels.
On the river though I do believe you could've saved yourself some $$'s... because you really have no clue where you're at... and if villain is choosing to reraise you here... you've got to put him on at the very minimum the 2nd Nut flush (but wouldn't he just call you down even then?.... maybe not cuz they're full o donks in those games... although there are a few that do know how to play). I just can't see the guy reraising your river raise without having you beat.
I think I would've led out for a bit more with the nut flush draw... maybe a typical c-bet of 2/3 - 3/4 pot.

 

[jordanbillie]

I think I would've led out for a bit more with the nut flush draw... maybe a typical c-bet of 2/3 - 3/4 pot.

Yeah but it's not a c-bet if you didn't raise preflop, it's more of a probe bet. Probe bets usually should be around 1/2 the pot.

 

[RightMeow]

Well I disagree ^^ because it depends upon the table. If you're playing on a table where there's a TON of limping and table is really passive.. it's not so bad to limp in with A-Xs in early levels.
On the river though I do believe you could've saved yourself some $$'s... because you really have no clue where you're at... and if villain is choosing to reraise you here... you've got to put him on at the very minimum the 2nd Nut flush (but wouldn't he just call you down even then?.... maybe not cuz they're full o donks in those games... although there are a few that do know how to play). I just can't see the guy reraising your river raise without having you beat.
I think I would've led out for a bit more with the nut flush draw... maybe a typical c-bet of 2/3 - 3/4 pot.

I like this the best... id put my own opinion in but as i was reading on, i noticed a lot of my points were taken, but i like this explation the best becuz it does depend on circumstance and just good analysis.

...and by the way... awesome avatar TS! lol.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Yeah but it's not a c-bet if you didn't raise preflop, it's more of a probe bet. Probe bets usually should be around 1/2 the pot.

WHat I was implying was.. 'typically the size of bet a c-bet would be around'

 

[Tublecain]

I agree that there is no way to justify open limping A4o at a full table, in my opinion. Even a table where everyone is always limping; if that's the case then you should be raising light to force people out and take down the pot with cbets, since chances are most of these players aren't very good or simply aren't paying attention, and won't know that's what you're doing.

Once you're in the pot, then there's really nothing you can do to avoid what happened. Unless you have reason to believe that you're opponent is holding a full or quads, there's no way you can fold the nut flush.

Once the river hits there's no way to avoid what happened since there's no way to know that your villain is holding 82. That's one of the main reasons that open limping is always a no-no in my opinion: you are put into a position where, even if you do hit a hand, you have no idea where anyone else stands and thus have no idea how to make them fold, or how much to value bet them when you hold a good hand. You won't hit the absolute nuts often enough to make open limping profitable.

Main lesson: don't open limp, period.
Secondary lesson: if you're going to bet into a pot on the flop, make it large enough that it gives you some idea of where everyone else stands.

Poker is about information. If you don't have any, then you stand to lose. It's that simple.