$2.20 NLHE MTT: JJ c/rd on flop

[BlueNowhere]

Early on so no reads. People generally play like retards though.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.20 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t2960)
UTG+1 (t2990)
MP1 (t3000)
MP2 (t3110)
MP3 (t6520)
CO (t3000)
Hero (Button) (t2990)
SB (t2650)
BB (t2800)

Hero's M: 99.67

Preflop: Hero is Button with J

, J

3 folds, MP2 calls t20, 2 folds, Hero bets t100, SB calls t90, 1 fold, MP2 calls t80

Flop: (t320) 2

, 6

, 3

(3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t200, SB raises to t920, 1 fold, Hero ???

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Guess call and get in on turn, but I could be totally wrong:questionm

 

[WiZZiM]

I think villians would try and get it in here with overpairs like 8-10's so i guess i'd talk myself into calling, but i'd think with that board it would probably be a mistake to ship so many BB's in.

Sooo, yeah i really have no idea, but i'd probably just shove it right here.

 

[BlueNowhere]

I opted to call and let him shove turn. Turn comes an non spade A (a blank in my eyes, it's not really concerning me)and he shoves, still happy to get it in?

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Yeah pretty ugly card wich could hit some of his range, probably would make a crying bad call.

 

[doomasiggy]

Might be completely wrong, but isn't it good enough to shove the flop here? He's not getting away from tptk, if he has it, he'll call with most over pairs, and a good player might call with an A high flush draw. Because if we flat here and then an A, K or Q, or spade comes up on the turn, then we've just lost a good third of our stack and are in a tricky situation.

 

[baudib1]

pretty tough spot, I think we can call and use position. This is an airball flop and he could be playing back wide. He will generally tell you the truth on the turn, and as played I'd just fold the turn.

He's rarely shoving 77-TT type hands on the turn and all of his Asxs semibluffs got there.

 

[BlueNowhere]

I didn't think the A was too concerning since his range is pretty much ATss +(maybe some more Axss), KJss+ QJss, 22-TT, plus some air. Only a small part of his range got there and I think he's going to shove his entire range on the turn anyway and only a small part got there

 

[The Messiah]

I personally hate getting into tuff decisions so early in an MTT lk you have on the turn but i think you made the situation a lot tuffer on yourself;

Your main decision for me comes on the flop,in this situation and on that board we are either folding or going all in,im not calling in this situation as the raise on the flop to me, and this is just something i have picked up by so many situations ive been in as of late that he just doesnt have a K,Qs,A,Ts type of hand in this case almost 90% of the time.It would be a lot easier to make a decision if we obv had more hands on the villian but just because of the skill level in these tournaments, i dont think our player is imaginative enough to make the semi bluff move.

Therefore i narrow the villains range down to the following:
A small PP which has up-graded to a set.
An Ax type hand,flopped TPTK,and a raise is not unusual,just think the raise is a bit too much for this type of hand though,so im not really keen on this range tbh.
Finally a Medium strength PP,lk 77-99s is in his range a lot here..

The reason we must make our decision on the flop is because of the exact reason you just said,hes shoving this turn with pretty much any card,the big re-raise on the flop tells me hes afraid of the spades,not liking it!, so get your money in on the flop or fold.
He put us in a tuff spot by shoving the turn which was putting you in a tuff situation,in MTTs you must try and do the opposite.
The way you played it,im folding turn 100% of the time.

 

[Pascal-lf]

so he never has any semi-bluffs with pair+straight draw/flush draw type hands?

 

[The Messiah]

so he never has any semi-bluffs with pair+straight draw/flush draw type hands?

What something like A,5s,of course this is why you either shove or fold,not call.Too many turn cards that put us in difficult decisions,if were calling off a high % of our stack on the flop,be expecting a lot of difficult decisions in further streets.
Were stacking off a lot of our chips here and a shove was a move i think the villian did because he might of put BN on a A,which leans me towards him having a set tbh

BN,what did he have,the suspense is killing me.lol

 

[BlueNowhere]

What something like A,5s,of course this is why you either shove or fold,not call.Too many turn cards that put us in difficult decisions,if were calling off a high % of our stack on the flop,be expecting a lot of difficult decisions in further streets.
Were stacking off a lot of our chips here and a shove was a move i think the villian did because he might of put BN on a A,which leans me towards him having a set tbh

BN,what did he have,the suspense is killing me.lol

Yea what you say about him shoving an A was concerning on the flop. I think I have More Ax in my range than him then for him to shove it seems to suggest he's shoving for value.

Also I don't think your argument for calling to avoid a difficult spot is good. I want to take the line that wins me the most chips, not one that is done to avoid any difficult decisions if it's going to have less ev. I think calling flop and let him shove turn will carry more ev If I shove flop he'll fold the part of his range I want him to ship on turn.

He had 22 in this hand, lol at his flop c/r size on that board, people are just utter retards.

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I would shove to that 920 bet. If he has a higher pocket pair, that's a crappy loss. Nothing to do though, it's a tough laydown for me.

 

[The Messiah]

Yea what you say about him shoving an A was concerning on the flop. I think I have More Ax in my range than him then for him to shove it seems to suggest he's shoving for value.

Also I don't think your argument for calling to avoid a difficult spot is good. I want to take the line that wins me the most chips, not one that is done to avoid any difficult decisions if it's going to have less ev. I think calling flop and let him shove turn will carry more ev If I shove flop he'll fold the part of his range I want him to ship on turn.

He had 22 in this hand, lol at his flop c/r size on that board, people are just utter retards.

Cool,its nice when you get the hand right.

Look,its hard to get away from overpair and if you shoved on the flop,i wouldnt see a problem there,its just when the ace comes and then he shoves its a fold 100% as i said.

People with a strong hand in the micros and a board that might slow there action down will make raises lk this.They just dont over raise there draws,thats why i didnt have him on one.
Ive had to adjust my play and thinking to adapt to the micros and when plays lk this happen and this early in the tour i just muck it on the flop,more often than not.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Cool,its nice when you get the hand right.

Think this is pretty result oriented. When blue posted this hand I was almost sure that he was beat in this particular spot on the flop, but that isn't the point.

 

[The Messiah]

Think this is pretty result oriented. When blue posted this hand I was almost sure that he was beat in this particular spot on the flop, but that isn't the point.

OK!

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Its about if this is an +EV or -EV spot overall vs his SB checkraise range on the flop. If he only got sets, slowplayed AA-QQ and a straight in his range is it defenitely a -EV spot, so than fold would have been the best option. But I think on average a range is much wider here it includes also 77-TT, A5/A4o?, FD's (+SD's), maybe also only overs and some toppair kind of hands.

Than it is the question what to do against these ranges, like I said if his range is as narrow that it leans towards hands that have you crushed you have to fold, and the problem with raising the flop vs this range is that you probably only get calls from hands that have you crushed or that have a lot of equity vs you(he could fold 77-TT). So that is why I think a call is best to keep his bluffs and hands that you have beat in his range and that he probably always would shove on the turn.

BTW I don't really see many Ax in our range on the turn after he checkraises the flop.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

vs this range .

Is the range mentioned earlier. (What a donk I am)

 

[duggs]

Assume he doesnt know how to play back wide due to play, also assume he limp raises/QQ+. limps are usually 77 and under. I prob bet/fold flop just due to his sizing. its 22/33/66/45 almost always here. limp/callers dont raise flush draws, nor do they raise mid overpairs.

edit: sorry thought mp raised us on flop.

Pretty sure overcallers to iso's dont play back wide. also i dont think over callers tend to raise fds/combos they generally cal
so 22/33/66/54 77-JJ.
probably just fold flop since we know they def raise the parts of range we lose to but we arent very sure they raise the parts we beat.