$2.20 NLHE MTT Bounty: multiway, wet board, AA facing check min raise

tewwa94

tewwa94

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Nov 18, 2016
Total posts
63
What am I supposed to do here? there are so many Qx and draws that it seems that my shove isn't that bad against weak hands that would be calling anyways (assuming weak players). The bad thing here is when I shove I can't do anything more after and hands that beat me are just going to call. Lets say I call the min raise and btn villain re raises, I'd have to fold then because it looks so strong?

pokerstars - 25/50 Ante 8 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

CO: 5,156 (103.1 bb)
BTN: 4,493 (89.9 bb)
SB: 5,796 (115.9 bb)
BB: 4,679 (93.6 bb)
UTG: 1,887 (37.7 bb)
UTG+1: 9,475 (189.5 bb)
MP: 3,341 (66.8 bb)
MP+1: 6,728 (134.6 bb)
Hero (MP+2): 4,359 (87.2 bb)

9 players post ante of 8, SB posts 25, BB posts 50

Pre Flop: (pot: 147) Hero has :ad4: :ac4:
4 folds, Hero raises to 110, fold, BTN calls 110, fold, BB calls 60

Flop: (427, 3 players) :6d4: :10s4: :qs4:
BB checks, Hero bets 250, BTN calls 250, BB raises to 550, Hero raises to 4,241 and is all-in, BTN raises to 4,375 and is all-in, BB calls 3,825

Turn: (13,418, 3 players) :5h4:

River: (13,418, 3 players) :jc4:

Results: 13,418 pot (0 rake)
Final Board: :6d4: :10s4: :qs4: :5h4: :jc4:

BB shows :10h4: :6h4:: (Two Pair, Tens and Sixes)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 14%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot: [268]: (Pre 38%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)

BTN shows :6c4: :6s4:: (Three of a Kind, Sixes)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 10%, Flop 81%, Turn 90%)
Side Pot: [268]: (Pre 62%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows :ad4: :ac4:: (One Pair, Aces)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 76%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)

BTN wins 13,418
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
The flop is certainly draw heavy - but we do not need to shove 90bb in the middle here effectively forcing our opponents to play perfect. What does that mean? Well while some players will easily stack off with top pr, its pretty unlikely that both opponents will do so. When we raise this flop all in it makes it VERY hard for certain draws to call it off unless they are VERY strong. A9, AK, KJ and J9 of spades are ALL ahead of our Aces on this flop (equity wise) - so in short when we jam instead of just calling here - we are forcing worse hands to fold and better hands to call - thus our opponents get to play perfectly.

I think it best to call here, evaluate the turn (if it gets to that point) - I still think we will be calling alot - then when the river action goes off the charts - I think we can find the fold. When the flush bricks and the J comes in - looooots of 2pr combos get there; straights come in as well, we just aren't really beating much and the reality is that $2 players REALLY have very few river bluffs. The smaller the stakes - generally the less capable the player pool is.

I hope this all makes sense and helps in some manner
 
A

atcj13

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May 31, 2017
Total posts
102
I think the best play here is to call and evaluate. The BB here is never doing this as a bluff. He might be "info-raising" top pair, but I think more than likely he has 2 pair or strong draw. The button here is very polarized when they flat your c-bet here. They usually either have a weak pair/draw or a very strong hand and are trying to keep the BB in to inflate the pot.
If we flat and the button raises, most of the time yes you should be folding, especially if the BB stays in the hand.
 
Micro Maven

Micro Maven

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Aug 19, 2013
Total posts
235
raise more pre when stacks are this deep, just flat the raise on flop and see what happens
 
3

300HPGOD

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Starting with pre flop I think you should be raising 3x at these low blind levels to get more value and set up larger bets on future streets especially with AA. On the flop your sizing is good and then you get called and then essentially min raised by the blind. When the blinds check raise they have a stronger hand usually then if a an outside the blinds player check raised. This check raise to me represents either 2 pair, a set, or some huge draw like Ax spades or a straight flush draw. The min raise sizing is key here especially over two players. this is never a bluff and as mentioned it is a strong hand.

I think your best course of action because the raise is so small is to call but know when you call you are very likely already behind. You would be looking for a turn card that boosts you in some way. One that turns your hand into a set or two pair that could be a higher two pair. I am usually folding the turn depending on sizing if the turn does not help as I feel like I would be behind here too often to float another card.

Jamming in the spot that you do does the worst of all worlds. It will fold out hands you beat (which I am not sure are many other than Ax spades, pure flipping with KJ spades but losing to J9 spades) and get calls from all those hands that you are behind. No reason to risk your stack on this flop when the big blind is going out of his way to tell you has something really good.
 
pandaboy

pandaboy

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363
You can here 1 more time reraise flop to 1200 and if some action here from 2 players, its mean you are behind... But its bad spot and you have to learn how to throw away AA ...
 
E

eetenor

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What am I supposed to do here? there are so many Qx and draws that it seems that my shove isn't that bad against weak hands that would be calling anyways (assuming weak players). The bad thing here is when I shove I can't do anything more after and hands that beat me are just going to call. Lets say I call the min raise and btn villain re raises, I'd have to fold then because it looks so strong?

PokerStars - 25/50 Ante 8 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

CO: 5,156 (103.1 bb)
BTN: 4,493 (89.9 bb)
SB: 5,796 (115.9 bb)
BB: 4,679 (93.6 bb)
UTG: 1,887 (37.7 bb)
UTG+1: 9,475 (189.5 bb)
MP: 3,341 (66.8 bb)
MP+1: 6,728 (134.6 bb)
Hero (MP+2): 4,359 (87.2 bb)

9 players post ante of 8, SB posts 25, BB posts 50

Pre Flop: (pot: 147) Hero has :ad4: :ac4:
4 folds, Hero raises to 110, fold, BTN calls 110, fold, BB calls 60

Flop: (427, 3 players) :6d4: :10s4: :qs4:
BB checks, Hero bets 250, BTN calls 250, BB raises to 550, Hero raises to 4,241 and is all-in, BTN raises to 4,375 and is all-in, BB calls 3,825

Turn: (13,418, 3 players) :5h4:

River: (13,418, 3 players) :jc4:

Results: 13,418 pot (0 rake)
Final Board: :6d4: :10s4: :qs4: :5h4: :jc4:

BB shows :10h4: :6h4:: (Two Pair, Tens and Sixes)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 14%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot: [268]: (Pre 38%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)

BTN shows :6c4: :6s4:: (Three of a Kind, Sixes)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 10%, Flop 81%, Turn 90%)
Side Pot: [268]: (Pre 62%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows :ad4: :ac4:: (One Pair, Aces)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 76%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)

BTN wins 13,418

Thank U 4 posting

The key to this hand is you did not make a strong read on this flop.

So how do we learn to make better reads thus informing us on the proper action?

We start as you have done by getting feed back well done you

How do we turn feedback into skills we possess?

Each action our villains take tell us something about their cards or their belief in what your cards are

The two possibilities for a player check raising you here are?

Draw or made hand

We must therefore start thinking that our villain is 50% chance of draw 50% chance of made hand

What indicators are there that may adjust our thinking one way or the other?

V position is important here.
Why would V reopen the betting with a draw OOP vs 2?
Why would V reopen betting with only A pair vs 2?

Bet sizing is important
Why this size with each of the possible holdings?

By asking these questions and more away from the table we begin to solidify the skills of making reads in the moment

Hope this helps

:):)
 
jaworek1405

jaworek1405

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You can here 1 more time reraise flop to 1200 and if some action here from 2 players, its mean you are behind... But its bad spot and you have to learn how to throw away AA ...

Hello, I sketch in that I prefer bigger raise pre flop on this deep stacks, at least 4x on this level of blinds. When hero will raise pre flop for at least 4x, opponent from the big blind sometimes can fold T6s. As played - on the flop cbet is standard. In this situation we often will lose some chips. When player from the big blinds raises two players, he shows the force. We have two players in this hand and we have to be careful, because is bigger possibility that somebody caught something strong. So I agree with pandaboy that on that deep stacks, reraise on the flop is even good move and if two players go allin after our reraise we can fold this AA, because both players show strong. GL :)
 
1

1player2

Rock Star
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Total posts
365
What am I supposed to do here? there are so many Qx and draws that it seems that my shove isn't that bad against weak hands that would be calling anyways (assuming weak players). The bad thing here is when I shove I can't do anything more after and hands that beat me are just going to call. Lets say I call the min raise and btn villain re raises, I'd have to fold then because it looks so strong?

PokerStars - 25/50 Ante 8 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

CO: 5,156 (103.1 bb)
BTN: 4,493 (89.9 bb)
SB: 5,796 (115.9 bb)
BB: 4,679 (93.6 bb)
UTG: 1,887 (37.7 bb)
UTG+1: 9,475 (189.5 bb)
MP: 3,341 (66.8 bb)
MP+1: 6,728 (134.6 bb)
Hero (MP+2): 4,359 (87.2 bb)

9 players post ante of 8, SB posts 25, BB posts 50

Pre Flop: (pot: 147) Hero has :ad4: :ac4:
4 folds, Hero raises to 110, fold, BTN calls 110, fold, BB calls 60

Flop: (427, 3 players) :6d4: :10s4: :qs4:
BB checks, Hero bets 250, BTN calls 250, BB raises to 550, Hero raises to 4,241 and is all-in, BTN raises to 4,375 and is all-in, BB calls 3,825

Turn: (13,418, 3 players) :5h4:

River: (13,418, 3 players) :jc4:

Results: 13,418 pot (0 rake)
Final Board: :6d4: :10s4: :qs4: :5h4: :jc4:

BB shows :10h4: :6h4:: (Two Pair, Tens and Sixes)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 14%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot: [268]: (Pre 38%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)

BTN shows :6c4: :6s4:: (Three of a Kind, Sixes)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 10%, Flop 81%, Turn 90%)
Side Pot: [268]: (Pre 62%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows :ad4: :ac4:: (One Pair, Aces)
Main Pot: [13,150]: (Pre 76%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)

BTN wins 13,418

Hello,


I recommend that you play more aggressive preflop with your premium holdings. Bigger raise. At least 3.5BB. Don't worry about your opponents folding. The aggressive preflop betting will protect your high pocket pairs as well.
 
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