$165 NLHE MTT: Live tourney, AJ FD on flop

[youregoodmate]

Went out with this yesterday, seems pretty standard but I'd like a second look. No reads on villain.

Im SB with Ah Jh. 7 handed.

CO opens to 4500. Blinds are 600/1200.

We both have about 50k. I flat.

Flop 10h 8c 5h. I check, he bets 9k and I jam.

 

[duggs]

see no need to jam

 

[Beanfacekilla]

Fwiw, villain may have read you for a FD. People always do this on FDs.

$4500 is a big raise to call OOP with A-J suited. I like A-J suited, but in LP. Perhaps you could have waited for a better spot? With 40 + BBs, seems like a foolish gamble for all your chips...

This is only my two cents...

 

[youregoodmate]

see no need to jam

I dont particularly want to call down. Plus im flipping against JJ-KK.

SORRY BLINDS WERE 800/1600.

 

[duggs]

3b pre for value imo, much rather call flop than jam

 

[youregoodmate]

3b pre for value imo, much rather call flop than jam

Is that not a bit close with 30bb. Why do you prefer calling?

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

where did we flat from?

obv we don't have stats but nitty/loose etc would help..

and i'm with duggs, flat and see the turn. we want to see all 5 cards but when we shove we just get called by better (duhh) and everything that will fold check folds the turn to our float anyway.

+ he like potted flop in a tourney, alarm bells unless thats his normal sizing.

 

[dj11]

Villain sees the FD and gives you bad odds...

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

decent villains aren't gonna pot it because of a FD, most people with common sense will know that out of his complete flatting range there an FD is a small part of it..

but its live and people will bet to 'fold out the flush draw', I just think he's really strong here + YGM went broke in this hand right?

 

[youregoodmate]

Pot was like 12k cos of antes etc. So 75% bet. Id only just been moved to the table, he opened CO, I flat from SB.

My thought was I could get him off some Tx type hands with a shove. I think c/c then jamming whenever he gives up would be best now.

Yeah he showed up with QQ, I think we're nearly 50/50 arent we? He thought for ages then called. I was ready to hit him, almost a slowroll.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

Tx never really folds I don't think, but playing the FD aggro isn't THAT bad, its just unnecessary especially in a tourney.

you can just rep more jamming turns + rivers that he should hate..

gg.

 

[youregoodmate]

Yeah I went out on a FD again last night although this time I think it was better. I opened pre and saw a 4 high flop 5 way. 2 overs and a FD, rep that overpair. Naturally my shove gets 3 calls.

I'm just a spew donk whenever I get any equity.

 

[TEG2300]

I really like the idea that seeing a turn card then shoving if he shuts down gives more to rep. I have often done that on a float and don't know if I ever really thought about why I was doing. It is one of those things that just works so I have kept doing it.

 

[TEG2300]

Here is the pokerstove of the hand. Which has me wondering what we are representing and at what odds?
I am not asking that in any condescending way I am just really not very well versed in the math or logic behind moves like this and would like to hear it.

 

[youregoodmate]

Here is the pokerstove of the hand. Which has me wondering what we are representing and at what odds?
I am not asking that in any condescending way I am just really not very well versed in the math or logic behind moves like this and would like to hear it.

I was trying to get folds from AQ+ and Tx type hands and just take the pot down there knowing I'm in good shape if I get called.

Calling was a better play though.

 

[TEG2300]

Ah I get it. Cool thanks.

 

[kanselau]

I was trying to get folds from AQ+ and Tx type hands and just take the pot down there knowing I'm in good shape if I get called.

Calling was a better play though.

Call the flop and whats the plan on the turn , jam any turn ?

 

[youregoodmate]

Yeah probably.

 

[gotchips]

see the turn...

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

3b pre for value imo, much rather call flop than jam

I rather like the 3b pf but guess its a fold if he 4bets?

With the call postflop OOP what if you brick on the turn is your plan 2 checkfold?

Think I would checkraise about 20-22K.

 

[duggs]

I rather like the 3b pf but guess its a fold if he 4bets?

This point is really important

 

[Lucothefish]

Villain is not check folding turn ever, he's in position so that's impossible.

I don't like floating when OOP. I also think pokerstoving against a villain's hand (instead of his range) is a fruitless exercise.

You're not deep stacked enough to chase a draw, c/c on flop puts in 25% of your stack and you're basically praying villain backs off on the turn after you c/c then check to him again, a line that is begging for a second barrel. Any turn bet from villain commits him.

The problem with jamming turn instead of flop is your odds of catching your flush/overs are cut in two. I like the c/r AI on flop with overs + NFD and a board that's likely to have missed our villain, the only issue is you need to be folding a chunk of villain's range to make it work and the flop bet looks huge for a cbet, skewing his range towards pair or better instead of missed overs.

Basically don't beat yourself up over this one imo, nh

 

[kanselau]

just a thought , how about check min raise , this looks like your saying let me have just alittle more chips , i would do this with a set and probably TP with Nut Flush draw, looking to get it in . looks super strong and any thinking villain knows we are never folding ?

 

[baudib1]

standard