This is Day 2 of the Monster Stack, we're in $1500/$3000/$3000 and we have $160K and the table chip lead.

A very loose player opened UTG to $6K. This player, earlier, within the first 5 hands of Day 2, had 3-bet an UTG open from +1, got 4-bet, and 5-bet jammed and beat with an ace right in the window.

Anyway, about 2 levels later in the 1.5/3/3 level he opened UTG $6K and the action folded to me in the BB.

From the BB,

Now, I could raise I suppose, but why? He's not going to fold and I'm just going to balloon the pot OOP. You could argue that I should be getting as much money in the middle as possible against this guy with the top of my range - so 50/50 raise call IMO. Beings this was a bracelet event, against a LAG (LAG's are beaten by backwards play and information deficits) I chose call.

$13.5K


Check/he jams $120K???? Your move.

If you have explained the situation well, this is for me easy call.. There is always the possibility that he has A8 or A7 or 78 but... CALL!

It is an instant call against these players and your hand is underrep'd

Have to call this. There shouldn’t be many hands that you are losing to and plus you’re dominating a lot of his hands. The only hand I’d thinking he would be leading would be 87.

you Play 1.5k$ tournaments and have issues with Hands like that?

what Hands could have you beat? A8, A7, AA, 88, 77, 87
Maybe Discount 87, but the rest could be in his LAG Opening range
does it make sense to jam 40bb as UTG raiser vs BB caller with a flopped set or 2 pair on such a dry board? not at all because your Hand is underrepresented as you just called in the bb, so he won't put you on AK/AQ.
I also don't see the Point in not 3beting. just because he will call anyways? well, that's good for us, we have one of the best starting Hands and will get more Chips into the pot.
otherwise 3bet pre and as played, call the shove to win vs AQ
don't get me wrong, but if you are afraid to Play against him, fold preflop next time

First off, against a very loose player I'm for sure 3 betting this hand and would be very willing to play for stacks with it. I'm imagining this guy is willing to open with probably 30-40% of hands, so you are for sure crushing most of his opening range.

I can understand it being a bit weird calling an allin of $120k with $16.5k in the pot. $6k each, $1.5k SB, $3k ante...I get $16.5k in the pot. I'll add I don't know how much time I'd put into analyzing his play, anyone who would 5bet allin with AJ considering the action is a friggin nut case in my opinion. I'd view this like Veritas, you are beating all but 8 hands. You block A7 and A8 and especially AA. You're crushing probably over 95% of his opening range postflop. I feel like this guy is more likely to flip over J 9 off than a hand that beats you. As played, I'm for sure calling.

Originally Posted by kkonicke

First off, against a very loose player I'm for sure 3 betting this hand and would be very willing to play for stacks with it. I'm imagining this guy is willing to open with probably 30-40% of hands, so you are for sure crushing most of his opening range.

I can understand it being a bit weird calling an allin of $120k with $16.5k in the pot. $6k each, $1.5k SB, $3k ante...I get $16.5k in the pot. I'll add I don't know how much time I'd put into analyzing his play, anyone who would 5bet allin with AJ considering the action is a friggin nut case in my opinion. I'd view this like Veritas, you are beating all but 8 hands. You block A7 and A8 and especially AA. You're crushing probably over 95% of his opening range postflop. I feel like this guy is more likely to flip over J 9 off than a hand that beats you. As played, I'm for sure calling.

Ok - sounds good and I came to the same conclusion

Obv this is pretty high variance though- huge upside but huge downside as well

I called he rolled a9o and we have a 9otr and I was crippled 1.5 hours before itm

Hence - did I come to the wrong conclusion and cost myself a 50bb stack in the home stretch with a gambling tard?

I still don't think I can get away but thats the point of his post - I've got 300k+ if i fade....

Originally Posted by ssbn743

Ok - sounds good and I came to the same conclusion
Obv this is pretty high variance though- huge upside but huge downside as well
I called he rolled a9o and we have a 9otr and I was crippled 1.5 hours before itm
Hence - did I come to the wrong conclusion and cost myself a 50bb stack in the home stretch with a gambling tard?
I still don't think I can get away but thats the point of his post - I've got 300k+ if i fade....

well then you made a very good call and he got lucky. you are a 80:20 fav OTF
although i'm kinda shocked how People Play in a 1.500$ Tournament. even if someone does this in a 1$ Tournament I label him as a weak funplayer I could exploit.
I mean, what is the Benefit to shove 120k with top pair and a weak kicker for a 16k pot vs a checking BB instead of a Standard cbet? a really bad Play and unfortunatly it got rewarded with a massive pot….
next time you take the pot

Originally Posted by ssbn743

Ok - sounds good and I came to the same conclusion

Obv this is pretty high variance though- huge upside but huge downside as well

I called he rolled a9o and we have a 9otr and I was crippled 1.5 hours before itm

Hence - did I come to the wrong conclusion and cost myself a 50bb stack in the home stretch with a gambling tard?

I still don't think I can get away but thats the point of his post - I've got 300k+ if i fade....

Jeez, I'd bet just about anything that this guy lost his entire stack within the hour. In that type of game, usually the players are going to be very good and you're going to have to be at risk at some point. Most often, you're going to have worse odds in your at risk moment than 80/20. Unless you were literally half hour away from the money bubble or something, you want those odds. Just super unfortunate that this guy hit his 20% card.

Originally Posted by kkonicke

Jeez, I'd bet just about anything that this guy lost his entire stack within the hour. In that type of game, usually the players are going to be very good and you're going to have to be at risk at some point. Most often, you're going to have worse odds in your at risk moment than 80/20. Unless you were literally half hour away from the money bubble or something, you want those odds. Just super unfortunate that this guy hit his 20% card.

Sorry, back from Vegas and can properly reply to this thread. As for him busting – he did, prior to ITM, I checked up on him. I don’t know exactly when, but it was before the bubble. #somejusticeanyway

So, pre-flop:
Whenever you lose in these situations, it always seems like the other option was better. As I said though, I still think it’s a 50/50 call/3-bet there.

“Anytime, you play your hand differently than you would have it you could see the cards, your opponent gains.” -Theory of Poker, and I’m sure I paraphrased that a bit, but still one of my favorite quotes and poker thoughts.

If I could have seen his A9o – do I 3-bet pre-flop?

I think both options have an equal amount of merit and have additional factors.

1. In this case, we have a LAG/tard with a hand we dominate with near certainly that he’ll make a continue mistake on the flop
2. Or….. We raise with the best hand with near certainty he makes a continue mistake pre-flop

In neither line do we narrow his range at all, he could still have A8, A7, 88, 77, 78, and almost certainly hands like 9T, J9, J8, T8, etc…

3-beting vs this guy feels reckless to me as it gains us absolutely nothing. If I had 3-bet, it would have been large, probably $20K, making the pot $49K. Probably would have C-bet $15K-ish, and then he jams $105K into $64K, I guess we have to be good much less often to be profitable than the $120K into $21K we end up facing, but it still doesn’t feel like it matters much in the end.

Yeah…..this just sucks when you can’t dodge these landmines – don’t feel there is really any good or completely correct answer here except not to play – but folding AK pre? That’s not an option is it? No room for results oriented BS, gut feelings, or I don’t want to play this loose cannon, thought processes IMO.