$1100 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: 4bet or Fold AK in pos?

[HumanPanda]

Edited:
4bet or Call*
(Sorry im a noob!)


MSPT
Level 2 100/200
20k Starting Stacks each player
First orbit of new Late Reg Table

Hero is in Cut Off
Villain is Big Blind

LJ limps
HJ limps
Hero opens to 700
BU folds
SB folds
Villain 3bets to 2100

LJ folds
HJ folds


Hero?

 

[Smart_Hand]

Easy 4bet and decide.

 

[jadaminato]

I would have called. You have no information about the villain and seeing the flop can better clarify your chances and the type of hand the BB was carrying

 

[ammje]

Hi Humanpanda, I think it is a mistake to open so strong, 700, maybe it would open to 500.
As you open very loudly, the villain makes a big 3bet, but if you open 500, the villain would have made a 3bet less big, and the pot would be smaller.
To not continue to enlarge the pot, I would only call, not make 4 bet.
It's the beginning of the tournament, you have 100bb, don't risk your tournament with AKo.

gl mate.:icon_rr:

 

[greatgame230]

you should just call that hand see the flop, the villain is in BB and his 3 bet tells me that he most likely has a medium or maybe high pair (10-10, JJ or QQ) I just call and I see the flop

 

[Brawo]

Open 3,5BB is too big for me, 2,5x is optimal / 3x is maximum
Villain knew you? Were you at the table in the past? Had you history?
You have to give us information about stacks.
Maybe Villain thinks Cut-off and BTN open really wide (and have right) so maybe he thought 3-bet will bluff you or have marginal hands and protect itself because is out of position. If I were you with AK I would make a 4-bet, around 5,0 - 5,5k and If opponent shove I think fold AKo is quite ok, but suited ohh ..., why? It is tough at the beginning, but let's see.

Tournament is expensive. First orbit, all-in on the BB hmm, we have here flip or we are behind so far against aces or kings (we block them but it is not impossible)
If you make a fold, and If you (still I don't know how many chips you have there)
have still quite big stack to play I would consider that option. AK is only AK and must improve ont the board. AK is not worth a lot of bigs in early phase of tournament.

Of course you have to count pot odds, but I know nothing about it in this hand.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Given that you're 100bb deep with two previous limpers, I'd raise a bit more -- to $900 or $1000 instead of $700.

When the big blind 3-bets, I think your options are to call or 4-bet rather than fold or 4-bet. You've got position, stacks are deep, and your hand is definitely strong enough to at least call.

I'd usually call here early in a soft tourney. With that said, if I had history with Villain or he looked like some very aggro young reg, I'd sometimes 4-bet to $5300 with the plan of calling off a shove.

 

[Brawo]

Oh I didin't see limpers omg, so dumpy... I'm sorry, I change my opinion about your raise. Is too small but everything else is stilo my opinion about this hand.

 

[ammje]

I didn't see the limpers either, thanks Colling for your advice.

Oh I didin't see limpers omg, so dumpy... I'm sorry, I change my opinion about your raise. Is too small but everything else is stilo my opinion about this hand.

 

[mara2259]

Your raise after two limpers and three players after you does not look like a theft of blinds, nevertheless the villain 3bets therefore he has something. You have 6 outs to strengthen your hand, but you sweat too much and can lose a significant part of the stack if an ace or a king falls on the board and the villain has a similar pocket pair. If you now declare a pass, you will regularly receive 3bets from the villain whenever you try to raise. While counting, see the flop and then make the final decision. The situation is ambiguous and you should not lower your self-esteem. Good luck!

 

[TheDude6622]

Easy call and be ready to call the shove on the flop if you hit and if it's the first hand.

 

[HumanPanda]

What next?

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the feedback.

I mistyped when I said “4bet or fold”, I actually meant “4bet or call” because I think I should have called rather than 4bet. But I can see pros and cons to both approaches.

This was around the 12th or 13th hand of the day. We all had just late reg’d and were opening a new table. 2nd orbit.

There was no history between me and the BB, or any of the players. BB player was a middle aged white male, and I am a young Asian male, if that helps lol.


In this hand, I chose to 4bet to 6000.

If I am going to 4bet here, what is the optimal sizing?

Or is it just never correct to 4bet in this spot?

 

[Collin Moshman]

I would usually just call against an unknown middle-aged player early, but your decision to 4-bet was reasonable. The right sizing is one big enough that charges him to take a flop but isn't so big that he knows you're never folding. This way he can still (potentially) shove worse hands and think that he has some fold equity. I like somewhere between around $4800-$5500 sizing for this.

 

[Collin Moshman]

For those reading this thread by the way, I suggest asking yourself before 4-betting with AK in this type of spot: "Is it likely my opponent gets it in with worse unpaired hands?" In theory he should -- you can iso limpers very wide, so he can 3-bet you wide, which means you have to 4-bet him a lot, and he can have a decently wide 5-bet shoving range. But in practice many live players will be very tight in these spots.

 

[Sidetracked]

You're only 100 BB deep (normal for a cash game but deep-ish for a tourney). It really depends on how you feel about AK. Some people will always be happy to 4 bet and call a shove with that hand, others like to play it more conservatively.

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

What about stack? What about opponent?
With this info i will say next:
-4bet x2 will be good
-4bet-push will be good
-You have only 1 option - it is a call
-You must fold preflop

 

[fundiver199]

In full ring online cash games I will sometimes 4-bet AK and then fold to a 5-bet 100BB deep. The reason is, the 4-bet gets a ton of folds, but at the same time a lot of the more nitty players are pretty much only putting in a 5-bet with AA or KK. So its actually a 4-bet bluff more than a 4-bet for value.

Early in a soft live tournament I can certainly see a case for taking the lower variance route and just call in position against, what is likely a pretty strong range. Maybe we get bluffed on some boards, where we miss, but even then we still have 90% of our stack left, which is a lot better than being out of the tournament.

 

[brucesmall]

I think your open should be 900 to 1100, if we face 3bet I think we call in position.... maybe consider floating backdoor flops or small cbets on boards where cbets should be bigger to protect his 3bet range oop... I'd consider checking back A or K high flops that are relatively dry to trap or catch bluffs on turn and river.

With more info 4betting is always a consideration, but being in position I'd elect to call, oop I'd lean more towards 4 betting.

 

[brucesmall]

I wanted to post that before reading your updated post.... as suggested in theory he could 5 bet jam with a wider range but in live play rarely is that the case... I'd make the 4bet size smaller unless you're ready tob stack off... a smaller 4bet size i think can look stronger and if he is 3 bet calling light you may get high % of folds of he dont hit flops...

4300 to 5100, if he comes over the top you save money if you fold, but can still stack off.... with position advantage, no antes I'm flatting his 3bet.