$11 NLHE STT: bvb vs reg AJo

F

FastandFurious

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Total posts
90
Chips
0
poker stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t60/t120 Blinds - 7 players - View hand 1302249
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: t2550 21.25 BBs
SB: t1855 15.46 BBs
Hero (BB): t1945 16.21 BBs
UTG: t2630 21.92 BBs
UTG+1: t736 6.13 BBs
MP: t1617 13.47 BBs
CO: t2167 18.06 BBs

Pre Flop: (t180) Hero is BB with J :spade: A :diamond:
5 folds, SB raises to t1855 all in, hero ??

SB is a winning reg at $11's but first time to encounter:
Stats: 2.30/11/7 hands: 459 SB raise: 33

Villain shove with about 15bbs in sb and first time I see it. Wiz says if villain shoves 13.90% (44+, A8o+, A5s+, KJs+) I can only call with 5.10% (99+, AQ+)
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Total posts
3,904
Chips
0
I think I call, no way he's shoving less than what you listed there imo, even with 15bb's.
 
DetroitJimmy

DetroitJimmy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Total posts
1,045
Chips
0
TBH I think he shoves way tighter than hands listed with 15bb. Therefore I would only call with AKo+ and 88+. Call this tight but I see no reason a tight reg would start shoving 15bb with less until proven otherwise.

No way I call with AJo here anyway. Maybe AQs+ but even then....
 
L

losched16

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Total posts
96
Chips
0
TBH I think he shoves way tighter than hands listed with 15bb. Therefore I would only call with AKo+ and 88+. Call this tight but I see no reason a tight reg would start shoving 15bb with less until proven otherwise.

No way I call with AJo here anyway. Maybe AQs+ but even then....
Agreed. In general I don't think a reg is over pushing that wide here. Personally, I like making these 15BB shoves with hands like AQ, AK, 1010. Shoving with these hands you can often get called by worse hands, but they can get tricky if you raise 2.5 or 3x OOP and get called and miss the flop. So I wouldn't be surprised if his range here are big aces and mid pockets (88+). Im folding AJ here.
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Total posts
3,904
Chips
0
88+ and AJ+ as a push range is less than 7%... Nash says he pushes here ~53%. Of course most players don't play optimally, but 7% seems awfully narrow.
 
L

losched16

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Total posts
96
Chips
0
Sorry, here is what I meant by my post. After I realized what I wrote, I couldn't go back and edit.

I understand that you can make unexploitable shoves here with hands like A5 and KQ. While a reg is going to probably push wider than 7% definitely, just from experience, when they actually shove, they are showing up with a tigher range than expected. You will typically see a more standard raise with the wider part of their range, so that if there is a 3 bet, they can still fold.

So you are correct with Nash, that you can unexploitably push quite a wide range here, but again, from what I have seen, the shoves come from a range of hands that you do not want to call with AJ. You have to be sure the villain is pushing around 20%+ of his hands here to make a profitable call with AJ. But typically, unless I have a note that a player is pushing 20%+, I am most likely folding here.
 
Last edited:
W

WiZZiM

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Total posts
5,008
Chips
0
Usually these are the types of players who just shove because they don't know how to play postflop. Usually it's hands they are afraid of getting 3bet or called with. So PP's, stuff like AK-A5. We can kinda rule out stuff like QQ+ here, as most players are not really afraid of playing those hands, and generally want to extract value.

That said, it's a huge risk to call off here, but also a pretty damn huge reward. I think we're up against PP's a lot of the time here, but we also dominate a lot of the "unexploitable" Ax type hands that shove.

Getting reads on the stack dynamic helps here a bit too, are there tight players on our left, is the table filled with regs? table full of unknowns or fish?

Probably folding in game, in favour of chipping up in better spots, if the game is filled with regs, or perhaps there are good regs on my left, then i'm way more likely to take a huge risk here.
 
W

WiZZiM

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Total posts
5,008
Chips
0
Oh and adding to OP's post. You should probably set those stack sizes to equal in SNG WIZ, as ICM overvalues the shortstack you have left over if you lose. May or may not make a huge differance here. But it just gets us closer to what is the correct answer.

EDIT- Yeah it moves from like 5.10% of hands to 4.20% of hands. No big deal, but still good to get into the practice of doing this imo.
 
F

FastandFurious

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Total posts
90
Chips
0
Oh and adding to OP's post. You should probably set those stack sizes to equal in SNG WIZ, as ICM overvalues the shortstack you have left over if you lose. May or may not make a huge differance here. But it just gets us closer to what is the correct answer.

EDIT- Yeah it moves from like 5.10% of hands to 4.20% of hands. No big deal, but still good to get into the practice of doing this imo.

Ohh..thx.. I didn't know that yet.. Ok.. I'll sure do ;)..
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
Pretty sure this is a fold for me too. AJo is not doing too well against a solid reg's 15bb shove, plus there are no antes and we only have 1bb invested. I think AQo is a snap call though fwiw, aswell as 88+
 
E

Eclipsenz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 18, 2009
Total posts
185
Chips
0
Such a weird shove though. I'm going with low pockets. 66~
 
C

ClubArrow77

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Total posts
317
Chips
0
I would fold here. No need to get in with AJo when we dont need to coin flip and risk yet. Im thinking reg would be shoving more tight since if he was stealing with a more marginal hand, he would raise especially with more than 10BB. it is a weird shove but since we dont know his range, I would fold and wait for better opportunities or evidence that villain is shoving much wider.
 
Top