$11 NLHE MTT Turbo: Right to fast play

[Ianmacca99]

Final table 3 remaining

Blinds 10k 20k 2k ante

Button folds

Hero SB J10d 38bb

Villan BB 26bb

Hero raises 2bb (40k)
Villan calls

Pot 86k
Flop Js 10c 4c
Hero bets 41k
Villan raises 100k
Hero?
With top two what in your opinion should be the line I take ?

 

[crazycitizen]

We need to know villain's tenancies.
Is villain know to raise draws?
Is villain only known to check-raise with pure value ranges?
Is villain known to continue the betting lead on the turn with missed draws?

With stack depths it is still possible to play turns, and just call this check-raise.
Especially if villain is very value-heavy here.
If villain checks turn you SHOULD be ahead and I think you should start sizing out draws.
There also should be a timing tell on the turn if he decides to lead. If he is ready to quickly lead any turn card I will be very suspect of trips.

I think fast-playing here is ok, you are ahead against nearly his whole value range.
But calling and playing the turn I would argue is better, as he has reasonable equity to be going all-in on the flop with most draws. Which is not the case on a blank turn.
Playing a turn also keeps in his bluffing range, where-as fast-playing flop will fold out his bluffing range.

That's my perspective,
Hope it helps

 

[Ianmacca99]

We need to know villain's tenancies.
Is villain know to raise draws?
Is villain only known to check-raise with pure value ranges?
Is villain known to continue the betting lead on the turn with missed draws?

With stack depths it is still possible to play turns, and just call this check-raise.
Especially if villain is very value-heavy here.
If villain checks turn you SHOULD be ahead and I think you should start sizing out draws.
There also should be a timing tell on the turn if he decides to lead. If he is ready to quickly lead any turn card I will be very suspect of trips.

I think fast-playing here is ok, you are ahead against nearly his whole value range.
But calling and playing the turn I would argue is better, as he has reasonable equity to be going all-in on the flop with most draws. Which is not the case on a blank turn.
Playing a turn also keeps in his bluffing range, where-as fast-playing flop will fold out his bluffing range.

That's my perspective,
Hope it helps

Thanks I fast played and got it in he called and had J9c and got there I think in hindsight I should of called the raise and played some turns

 

[300HPGOD]

I like jamming over the raise on the flop myself. Its blind vs blind so if the villain hand even probably 88+ we would have heard about pre flop. We also have two set blockers since we have two pair. That leaves us only really worried about 44 and KQ clubs, 98 clubs (both pure flips) and the hands we beating like straight draws, flush draws and other Jx of clubs. More than likely the villain is on a flush draw that if you call here and a club does not hit the turn they will probably shut it down whereas if a club does hit are you folding two pair and instantly giving villain credit for the flush? I think the best play here to jam and get value from the hands we are beating which outnumbers the hand we are losing to and the 2 flip hands plus we dont want villain to get away easily.

Also think, if we just call the flop and there is no club are we leading the turn? We better be or villain will be checking behind a lot to see the river card for free. Its an old limit poker play where people would raise on the flop where there are smaller bets so that they would be checked to on the turn and could check behind to see a free card and save one big bet.

 

[fundiver199]

Easy jam. You essentially have the nuts, and you want to get it in on the flop against draws, since draws will play future streets more perfect than two pair. You got it in with 63% equity, which is good enough, and the outcome just is, what it is. The only thing, I would have done different, is preflop. I just dont see, what a mini-raise does out of position. You price him in to call with any two cards, so you are just bloating the pot, when you are out of position with a somewhat mediocre hand. My play would be to limp into the pot with intentions to call a reasonable sized raise.

 

[Ianmacca99]

I like jamming over the raise on the flop myself. Its blind vs blind so if the villain hand even probably 88+ we would have heard about pre flop. We also have two set blockers since we have two pair. That leaves us only really worried about 44 and KQ clubs, 98 clubs (both pure flips) and the hands we beating like straight draws, flush draws and other Jx of clubs. More than likely the villain is on a flush draw that if you call here and a club does not hit the turn they will probably shut it down whereas if a club does hit are you folding two pair and instantly giving villain credit for the flush? I think the best play here to jam and get value from the hands we are beating which outnumbers the hand we are losing to and the 2 flip hands plus we dont want villain to get away easily.

Also think, if we just call the flop and there is no club are we leading the turn? We better be or villain will be checking behind a lot to see the river card for free. Its an old limit poker play where people would raise on the flop where there are smaller bets so that they would be checked to on the turn and could check behind to see a free card and save one big bet.

Thanks I thought that was the best play I just thought I'd review and see if that was the play others make

 

[Ianmacca99]

Easy jam. You essentially have the nuts, and you want to get it in on the flop against draws, since draws will play future streets more perfect than two pair. You got it in with 63% equity, which is good enough, and the outcome just is, what it is. The only thing, I would have done different, is preflop. I just dont see, what a mini-raise does out of position. You price him in to call with any two cards, so you are just bloating the pot, when you are out of position with a somewhat mediocre hand. My play would be to limp into the pot with intentions to call a reasonable sized raise.

Thanks I think I should of made it larger pre or like you said limped.
I think getting it in was best play on the flop giving me best chance to get all in money in just unlucky he got there. I said in my initial reply I maybe should call and keep bluffs in but I now disagree with that statement and think I was being results oriented

 

[fundiver199]

I said in my initial reply I maybe should call and keep bluffs in but I now disagree with that statement and think I was being results oriented

Yeah I think so. For me "keeping bluffs in" is not really a concern here, because I just dont think, he is likely to be raising you on the flop with absolutely nothing. He typically either has top pair and is raising to protect it, or he has some kind of draw. And even if he does have an airball, I dont think, he is going to fire another bullet, when there is only a bit more than a pot sized bet left. I mean, what size is he going to bet the turn, which is not all-in but still large enough to give fold equity, after you called his raise on the flop?

 

[vsawake01]

Easy push here.
To my mind all in means nothing (special) here. I agree with "44 and 89 and KQ clubs", but you ahead against a lot of hand of SB hand.

 

[fundiver199]

Easy push here.
To my mind all in means nothing (special) here. I agree with "44 and 89 and KQ clubs", but you ahead against a lot of hand of SB hand.

Against KQ of clubs Hero has 49% equity and against 98 of clubs he has 52%. So its not exactly the end of the world to run two pair into a combodraw

 

[vsawake01]

Against KQ of clubs Hero has 49% equity and against 98 of clubs he has 52%. So its not exactly the end of the world to run two pair into a combodraw

Somehow mention of Jc was missed.

 

[fundiver199]

Somehow mention of Jc was missed.

Hero have 53% equity against QJ of clubs, 54% against KJ of clubs and 55% against AJ of clubs. So running into one of those combos is not exactly the end of the world either. Also there are only 3 combos of these hands. But there are 21 other combos of QJ, KJ, AJ, which might also be played like this, and where Hero have around 80% equity

 

[vsawake01]

Hero have 53% equity against QJ of clubs, 54% against KJ of clubs and 55% against AJ of clubs. So running into one of those combos is not exactly the end of the world either. Also there are only 3 combos of these hands. But there are 21 other combos of QJ, KJ, AJ, which might also be played like this, and where Hero have around 80% equity

Totally agree

 

[MoryMorte]

Just ship it. We crush most of his value range and even if called, we should be ahead most of the time. You can call but what will be your plan if flush card comes? Or straight? Then you will be forced to fold a wining hand.
Let’s say V has an over pair and back door flush draw. If flush card hits, V will bet quite comfortably and you will be under a lot of pressure to continue. And it is if V did not hit flush.