This is a discussion on $11 NLHE MTT: AJo open from MP within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Hand Analysis section; Hi. How do you play this?
PokerStars, $9.80 + $1.20 - Hold'em No Limit - 30/60 (6 ante) - 9 players
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when I saw the replay, I did not believe
I rarely see someone pay that much preflop/flop and be able/crazy to raise in the turn with 2♦3♦ , unbelievable
You played well, I would play the same way, gg gl next time
I don't like how you have played this hand.
Preflop of course everything is ok.
From the flop troubles were started.
You are in multiway spot with four players. A lot of poker players has in their mind that c-bet is a strong move and we have to do this in every spot. Wrong thinking.
You have two over cards and gutshot, ok not too bad, but, no matter how you look you miss the flop, but you have a chance to improve it. Semibluffs in multiway spot isn't good strategy.
I would check here, pot control. You are third to decision and two players are behind you.
Your bet looks like value bet, wait, what? you don't have nothing for real.
If you want to bluff, make a 80% or pot bet.
Another problem is fact that you are so deep in this early phase on tournament and you play so agressively marginal hands like AJo, protect your chips.
Four calls on the flop and ace on the turn. They can have QT, KJ AT (A and J you block but it is not impossible) or set of deuces, you gave them great pot odds to drawing.
Didin't that even bother you for a moment?
Call on the turn is a huge mistake for me.. An ace is in your range and they know it (probably) and they didin't scare. Maybe they protect a straight with KJ from flush? (ok you have jack in diamond and block flush)
On the river flush draws hit. Okey here you have straight and tough decision, but if you would fold on the turn it wouldn't be.
Mistakes in poker are expensive and in this spot is too much mistakes.
Apart from your opponents played worse than you, but it is not excuse.
Sometimes our pride and fear of failure/ be bluffed blinds us.
I like the preflop open and sizing - that's pretty standard.
The flop is where things go wrong for me...no way in any way shape or form am I EVER c-betting this flop this multi way. With this many players in the hand and 2 broadway cards on board at least 1 (if not more) opponents in the hand have flopped a piece of this one - I would look to check/fold to alot of bets here. Maybe if an opponent bets small we can float the flop with a gutter but the ONLY good card for us is a K. Our Ace brings in KJ, our J brings in K9 or a passively played AK...just not alot of good turns for us. To be completely comfortable we are looking for a K and only a K - for that reason we can check fold to a ton of bets here.
I dislike your cbet on the flop but I like the sizing. The turn bet - i hate the sizing...you bet roughly 1/3 pot on the flop and then bet less than 1/4 pot on the turn - a turn card which hits us but is not all that good for us as well...the ace completes some hands that were drawing on the flop and brings in some weird 2 pair combos as well. The board just gets super awkward on the turn and we are almost forced to commit when we could easily be second best here.
The river is just unfortunate for us because not its extremely hard for us to be beaten unless some Ax of diamonds hand got there on us - 23s shouldnt have floated the flop bet and definitely shouldn't even be in the hand at this point - just nothing you can do once you get here. Have to call it off and face the result.
All in all this whole cluster can be avoided by check/folding flop.
When you go to cbet that hand multi way like that - ask yourself - what hands that you currently beat are calling a cbet there? Practically nothing...right? K9 or J9...all other hands are paired up or had you beat preflop anyhow. Betting out here you are only getting called by a better hand which means we are wasting chips - check fold and move on - only lose 3bb instead of 100bb
We got 4 callers, which is not exactly ideal. In multiway pots we need a much stronger hand to bet for value, which also mean, we should be bluffing less. We flopped a gutshot with an over, but we are almost certainly behind to at least someone, we dont have that much equity, and we are never getting 4 players to fold by betting so small.
For all these reasons I prefer to check with intentions to fold, if heavy action develop behind me. We only have 3BB invested so far, so its no big deal to just give up. If it gets checked through, that is totally cool as well. Gives us a chance to improve for free.
Now we have top pair second kicker, but I am still not really sure, what a small bet does? With so many people in the pot top pair is not exactly a monster, and now we get check-raised. I would just fold and move on, but I would also not have bet the flop or bet the turn.
We made a straight, but the backdoor flushdraw also came in, and our straight is a 1-liner. In that situation we need to ask ourselfes, if our opponent is really ever betting a worse hand for value, and I think, the answer is no. So we have a bluff-catcher, and even though we have a relevant blocker with Jd, its certainly still possible, he can have a flush.
I dont know. It sucks to put our tournament life on the line just hoping to catch someone making a huge bluff or maybe chop with another J? But I do understand, why you called it off, and the more important point in the hand is our decision making on the flop and turn.
While the backdoor flush is relevant our opponent is much more likely to be raising the turn with a straight - I think we should have taken that into account much more than the diamond draw filling in. KJ of any suit would call this flop bet while random diamond hands probably fold that dont contain a pair already.
Like I said originally, the turn gets super weird and I would have preferred a check - but either way since we bet - even if we check someone else may bet -and our spazzy player raises into multiple opponents- HUGE red flag for me. How often does someone do this that does not have us beat? What worse hands are raising the turn here? Practically none...right? I think we could make the crying fold here and move on with our tournament vs calling a raise which puts us in an ugly spot. I know the dude had 23 and you were way ahead but I think this raise is going to be KJ or AT a looooot more than it's going to be some random flush draw combo.
As played to the river I think we are chopping a ton of the time vs other straights - we would be lucky to do so as well. Just unfortunate for us that our opponent backed into a flush this time but I think more often than not we are chopping.
This was entertaining.
Well to answer your question, I would've played the same pre and on the flop, but with that many players getting to the turn, I would've shut down and check called turn and river (maybe fold to all in river bet because of the depth of the stack I would still have when I fold)
With that rake, you were drawing dead before the flop
Preflop raise was good, flop c-bet also good, I would check back the turn because it completes the broadway straight and you're unlikely to get called by worse, river is super gross but I think you have to make the call especially having the diamond blocker.
Villain's play was atrocious; can only feel confident after hitting another 2 for trips. Playing to hit either bottom 2-pair or 3 high backdoor flush is asking to go broke.
While the backdoor flush is relevant our opponent is much more likely to be raising the turn with a straight
I agree. Backdoor flushdraws should only call on the flop, if they have something else going on as well, and most of the more reasonable ones are blocked by the board and by us holding J of diamonds. He really should not call preflop with hands like 32s or 42s, so the only reasonable flush combos, he can have on the river, are T9, T8 and 98.
For that reason Hero has to call, if he get to the river. Its very likely, that this is going to be a chopped pot, and its extremely unlikely, Villain has a flush, even though this time he did. At the same time however Hero should not call on the turn. On the turn Hero is hoping to see some kind of semi-bluff, but there are just not that many of them, and there is a ton of value, that has Hero crushed. KJ, AQ, AT, a slowplayed set. The list goes on.