$11 NLHE MTT: AJo open from MP

lilu80

lilu80

Legend
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Total posts
1,236
Awards
6
Hi. How do you play this?

pokerstars, $9.80 + $1.20 - Hold'em No Limit - 30/60 (6 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

paton 62 (UTG): 8,413 (140 bb)
McDabr (UTG+1): 9,006 (150 bb)
lilu80 (MP): 8,201 (137 bb)
SleemanOG (MP+1): 9,963 (166 bb)
Faamendes (LP): 10,874 (181 bb)
De brene5 (CO): 16,875 (281 bb)
k.lavr (BU): 6,220 (104 bb)
Lorkis1 (SB): 10,585 (176 bb)
Naamaassaat (BB): 9,818 (164 bb)

Pre-Flop: (144) Hero (lilu80) is MP with A J
2 players fold, lilu80 (MP) raises to 180, SleemanOG (MP+1) calls 180, 2 players fold, k.lavr (BU) calls 180, Lorkis1 (SB) calls 150, Naamaassaat (BB) calls 120

Flop: (954) T 2 Q (5 players)
Lorkis1 (SB) checks, Naamaassaat (BB) checks, lilu80 (MP) bets 315, SleemanOG (MP+1) calls 315, k.lavr (BU) calls 315, Lorkis1 (SB) calls 315, Naamaassaat (BB) calls 315

Turn: (2,529) A (5 players)
Lorkis1 (SB) checks, Naamaassaat (BB) checks, lilu80 (MP) bets 600, SleemanOG (MP+1) folds, k.lavr (BU) calls 600, Lorkis1 (SB) folds, Naamaassaat (BB) raises to 2,460, lilu80 (MP) calls 1,860, k.lavr (BU) calls 1,860

River: (9,909) K (3 players)
Naamaassaat (BB) bets 6,857 (all-in), lilu80 (MP) calls 5,240 (all-in), k.lavr (BU) folds

Total pot: 20,389

Showdown:
Naamaassaat (BB) shows 2 3 (a flush, Ace high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 37%, Flop: 62%, Turn: 30%, River: 100%)

lilu80 (MP) shows A J (a straight, Ten to Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 63%, Flop: 38%, Turn: 70%, River: 0%)

Naamaassaat (BB) wins 20,389
 
Edu1

Edu1

Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Total posts
1,724
Awards
15
Hi,
when I saw the replay, I did not believe
I rarely see someone pay that much preflop/flop and be able/crazy to raise in the turn with 2♦3♦ , unbelievable
You played well, I would play the same way, gg gl next time
 
B

Brawo

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Total posts
245
I don't like how you have played this hand.
Preflop of course everything is ok.

From the flop troubles were started.
You are in multiway spot with four players. A lot of poker players has in their mind that c-bet is a strong move and we have to do this in every spot. Wrong thinking.

You have two over cards and gutshot, ok not too bad, but, no matter how you look you miss the flop, but you have a chance to improve it. Semibluffs in multiway spot isn't good strategy.
I would check here, pot control. You are third to decision and two players are behind you.
Your bet looks like value bet, wait, what? you don't have nothing for real.
If you want to bluff, make a 80% or pot bet.

Another problem is fact that you are so deep in this early phase on tournament and you play so agressively marginal hands like AJo, protect your chips.

Four calls on the flop and ace on the turn. They can have QT, KJ AT (A and J you block but it is not impossible) or set of deuces, you gave them great pot odds to drawing.
Didin't that even bother you for a moment?

Call on the turn is a huge mistake for me.. An ace is in your range and they know it (probably) and they didin't scare. Maybe they protect a straight with KJ from flush? (ok you have jack in diamond and block flush)

On the river flush draws hit. Okey here you have straight and tough decision, but if you would fold on the turn it wouldn't be.

Mistakes in poker are expensive and in this spot is too much mistakes.

Apart from your opponents played worse than you, but it is not excuse.

Sometimes our pride and fear of failure/ be bluffed blinds us.
 
Last edited:
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

Visionary
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Total posts
797
Flop check-fold vs crazy actions. Vs light actions check-call. Turn check-call always. River check-call vs normal size always.
 
B

Brawo

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Total posts
245
Flop check-fold vs crazy actions. Vs light actions check-call. Turn check-call always. River check-call vs normal size always.


You want to achive a lot number of post as soon as possible?
Write something more than "bleble" what only you understand.
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
Lord lots going on here lol

I like the preflop open and sizing - that's pretty standard.

The flop is where things go wrong for me...no way in any way shape or form am I EVER c-betting this flop this multi way. With this many players in the hand and 2 broadway cards on board at least 1 (if not more) opponents in the hand have flopped a piece of this one - I would look to check/fold to alot of bets here. Maybe if an opponent bets small we can float the flop with a gutter but the ONLY good card for us is a K. Our Ace brings in KJ, our J brings in K9 or a passively played AK...just not alot of good turns for us. To be completely comfortable we are looking for a K and only a K - for that reason we can check fold to a ton of bets here.

I dislike your cbet on the flop but I like the sizing. The turn bet - i hate the sizing...you bet roughly 1/3 pot on the flop and then bet less than 1/4 pot on the turn - a turn card which hits us but is not all that good for us as well...the ace completes some hands that were drawing on the flop and brings in some weird 2 pair combos as well. The board just gets super awkward on the turn and we are almost forced to commit when we could easily be second best here.

The river is just unfortunate for us because not its extremely hard for us to be beaten unless some Ax of diamonds hand got there on us - 23s shouldnt have floated the flop bet and definitely shouldn't even be in the hand at this point - just nothing you can do once you get here. Have to call it off and face the result.

All in all this whole cluster can be avoided by check/folding flop.

When you go to cbet that hand multi way like that - ask yourself - what hands that you currently beat are calling a cbet there? Practically nothing...right? K9 or J9...all other hands are paired up or had you beat preflop anyhow. Betting out here you are only getting called by a better hand which means we are wasting chips - check fold and move on - only lose 3bb instead of 100bb
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,282
Awards
1
Preflop
3BB open is standard and fine.

Flop
We got 4 callers, which is not exactly ideal. In multiway pots we need a much stronger hand to bet for value, which also mean, we should be bluffing less. We flopped a gutshot with an over, but we are almost certainly behind to at least someone, we dont have that much equity, and we are never getting 4 players to fold by betting so small.

For all these reasons I prefer to check with intentions to fold, if heavy action develop behind me. We only have 3BB invested so far, so its no big deal to just give up. If it gets checked through, that is totally cool as well. Gives us a chance to improve for free.

Turn
Now we have top pair second kicker, but I am still not really sure, what a small bet does? With so many people in the pot top pair is not exactly a monster, and now we get check-raised. I would just fold and move on, but I would also not have bet the flop or bet the turn.

River
We made a straight, but the backdoor flushdraw also came in, and our straight is a 1-liner. In that situation we need to ask ourselfes, if our opponent is really ever betting a worse hand for value, and I think, the answer is no. So we have a bluff-catcher, and even though we have a relevant blocker with Jd, its certainly still possible, he can have a flush.

I dont know. It sucks to put our tournament life on the line just hoping to catch someone making a huge bluff or maybe chop with another J? But I do understand, why you called it off, and the more important point in the hand is our decision making on the flop and turn.
 
M

marvbake

Guest
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Total posts
107
I honestly might've folded the turn. If not the turn, definitely the river.

Kudos to the guy for having the boldness to check raise bluff pair + FD, but I've would folded since a person can easily have Aces up there.

If you call the turn, reevaluate on the river. A backdoor flush got there you have to take that into account. Construct a range. Try to feel it out.
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
While the backdoor flush is relevant our opponent is much more likely to be raising the turn with a straight - I think we should have taken that into account much more than the diamond draw filling in. KJ of any suit would call this flop bet while random diamond hands probably fold that dont contain a pair already.

Like I said originally, the turn gets super weird and I would have preferred a check - but either way since we bet - even if we check someone else may bet -and our spazzy player raises into multiple opponents- HUGE red flag for me. How often does someone do this that does not have us beat? What worse hands are raising the turn here? Practically none...right? I think we could make the crying fold here and move on with our tournament vs calling a raise which puts us in an ugly spot. I know the dude had 23 and you were way ahead but I think this raise is going to be KJ or AT a looooot more than it's going to be some random flush draw combo.

As played to the river I think we are chopping a ton of the time vs other straights - we would be lucky to do so as well. Just unfortunate for us that our opponent backed into a flush this time but I think more often than not we are chopping.
 
FF2586

FF2586

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Total posts
378
Awards
1
Hey there.
This was entertaining.
Well to answer your question, I would've played the same pre and on the flop, but with that many players getting to the turn, I would've shut down and check called turn and river (maybe fold to all in river bet because of the depth of the stack I would still have when I fold)

Thanks for sharing and gl:top:
 
lilu80

lilu80

Legend
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Total posts
1,236
Awards
6
Thank you very much for substantive interesting valuable analyzes. First I'll correct my to much aggresive cbet with many villain! :)
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

Visionary
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Total posts
798
Awards
2
You want to achive a lot number of post as soon as possible?
Write something more than "bleble" what only you understand.


you wrote a wall of gibberish text what you could explain in 3 sentences. You are not a moral guard here.
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

Visionary
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Total posts
797
achive a lot number of post as soon as possible

For what?


What incomprehensible I wrote? The author asked us how we would play, I wrote how I'd play. What is the essence of your post?
 
ribaric

ribaric

Visionary
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Total posts
780
I would reraised him on turn all in he would call probably and i would loose but preflop and flop would play the same.
 
rj_montana

rj_montana

Visionary
Joined
Oct 29, 2019
Total posts
508
With that rake, you were drawing dead before the flop ;)

Preflop raise was good, flop c-bet also good, I would check back the turn because it completes the broadway straight and you're unlikely to get called by worse, river is super gross but I think you have to make the call especially having the diamond blocker.

Villain's play was atrocious; can only feel confident after hitting another 2 for trips. Playing to hit either bottom 2-pair or 3 high backdoor flush is asking to go broke.
 
Last edited:
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,282
Awards
1
While the backdoor flush is relevant our opponent is much more likely to be raising the turn with a straight

I agree. Backdoor flushdraws should only call on the flop, if they have something else going on as well, and most of the more reasonable ones are blocked by the board and by us holding J of diamonds. He really should not call preflop with hands like 32s or 42s, so the only reasonable flush combos, he can have on the river, are T9, T8 and 98.

For that reason Hero has to call, if he get to the river. Its very likely, that this is going to be a chopped pot, and its extremely unlikely, Villain has a flush, even though this time he did. At the same time however Hero should not call on the turn. On the turn Hero is hoping to see some kind of semi-bluff, but there are just not that many of them, and there is a ton of value, that has Hero crushed. KJ, AQ, AT, a slowplayed set. The list goes on.
 
0815am

0815am

Rock Star
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Total posts
146
I agree with most said and also understand your river call.

But you shouldn’t have bet on the flop. If you bet, I would bet bigger. This Typenschild Betsizing keeps anything in. And you aren’t betting for value :)

Same thing on the turn. While Our hand strength changed. A lot of the hands calling a turn, might also have improved KJ, AT, ...

So we risk getting raised at which point we have to fold for sure. Our two pair outs are counterfeited and a four straight won’t get us paid much with the thread of the BD flush.
 
Top