$109 NL HE MTT: Sunday Milion, 3 bet pot OOP, raised on turn.

[Rajten]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

109

Game Options

1. Bounty

Currency

$

pokerstars, $100 + $9 - Hold'em No Limit - 125/250 (30 ante) - 7 players


UTG: 49,720 (199 bb)
MP: 49,410 (198 bb)
MP+1: 48,575 (194 bb)
CO: 43,440 (174 bb)
BU: 50,575 (202 bb)
SB: 49,945 (200 bb)
BB (Hero): 49,970 (200 bb)

Pre-Flop: (585) Hero is BB with A♥ Q♠
2 players fold, MP+1 raises to 750, 1 fold, BTN calls 750, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets to 3,250, MP+1 calls 2,500, BTN calls 2,500

Flop: (10,085) T♦ 6♠ A♦ (3 players)
Hero checks, MP+1 checks, BTN bets 4,250, Hero calls 4,250, MP+1 folds

Turn: (18,585) T♠ (2 players)
Hero bets 7,500, BTN raises to 43,045 (all-in) Hero ???

No info, begining of tournament, my raise from BB was defenitely to small, So it made me some trouble, on flop firstly I thought about check raise, but when I get action, I am not happy, so I decided to check-call. On turn how do you play it???

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Personally I would perfer to just call here and keep the pot small. The issue with 3-betting this deep is, that the opponents can call much wider, because they have implied odds against you. And then you just end up playing a bloated pot out of position with a hand, that dont want to stack off with just a top pair, which is, what you will most commonly hit.

Flop
I think, you are supposed to C-bet small here with most of your range. But check-calling is fine as well.

Turn
This is, where I really disagree with your line. The board is paired now, which is bad for you, and yet you decide to lead out, which makes no sense to me. I would check-call here again assuming a reasonable sizing, and then check-evaluate river. When he jam, I dont really see, how you can call, and this is the whole issue with 3-betting preflop, when you are this deep.

 

[300HPGOD]

Totally agree basically verbatim with the above. I thought going through the hand first and then thinking what I would do before reading any posts that I would be a potential odd ball by saying pre should just be flatted but I guess Im not alone. For all what Fundiver says its better to flat here since we just arent going to get folds when we are hella deep and then it gets tricky out of position post flop.

The flop is where I slightly disagree with the above just in the sense that I think its a c bet and that c betting is far better than check calling. If the board was rainbow I think check calling is fine and close to on par with c betting but with two diamonds out there it brings all those flush draw hands into play that are worse and will still call. Plus any smaller Ax here generally will call at least one street due our range having hands that Ax beats so I think we should be c betting for value here. Somewhere around what villain actually bets for would be my sizing.

My thoughts on the turn are dependent on how we played the flop. If I c bet the flop I would be more inclined to fire on turn again although I am not sure that I would. I dont like the 10 and still would want to charge the flush draws (which actually should be less inclined to call than normal due to the paired board) but would be torn there on which way I would go. However, as we played it here with check calling flop then I think this is a clear check turn because your lead bet here is almost like you are trying to turn your hand into a bluff which is totally not necessary here. As played with the flop, this is a very clear check and a vast majority of the time call.

As Fundiver states if we had check called turn then river is check and see what villain does. They could value 10x here, bluff a smaller Ace here or they could check it behind and take showdown value so you would have to make a decision there basically readless but I would not lead turn or river based on how we played flop.

 

[eetenor]

Totally agree basically verbatim with the above. I thought going through the hand first and then thinking what I would do before reading any posts that I would be a potential odd ball by saying pre should just be flatted but I guess Im not alone. For all what Fundiver says its better to flat here since we just arent going to get folds when we are hella deep and then it gets tricky out of position post flop.

The flop is where I slightly disagree with the above just in the sense that I think its a c bet and that c betting is far better than check calling. If the board was rainbow I think check calling is fine and close to on par with c betting but with two diamonds out there it brings all those flush draw hands into play that are worse and will still call. Plus any smaller Ax here generally will call at least one street due our range having hands that Ax beats so I think we should be c betting for value here. Somewhere around what villain actually bets for would be my sizing.

My thoughts on the turn are dependent on how we played the flop. If I c bet the flop I would be more inclined to fire on turn again although I am not sure that I would. I dont like the 10 and still would want to charge the flush draws (which actually should be less inclined to call than normal due to the paired board) but would be torn there on which way I would go. However, as we played it here with check calling flop then I think this is a clear check turn because your lead bet here is almost like you are trying to turn your hand into a bluff which is totally not necessary here. As played with the flop, this is a very clear check and a vast majority of the time call.

As Fundiver states if we had check called turn then river is check and see what villain does. They could value 10x here, bluff a smaller Ace here or they could check it behind and take showdown value so you would have to make a decision there basically readless but I would not lead turn or river based on how we played flop.

Solvers will have us flat the AQ here as well so you are not an oddball at all- We would 3 bet AQs as it can equity realize more easily and can over flush for stacks.

 

[puzzlefish]

I've had trouble with this type of hand myself a lot in the past and I agree with the above regarding how to approach this with top pair good kicker. This isn't a situation where you want to play for stacks when you are still this deep near the opening of the tournament. The preflop action isn't enough to get various Tx hands to fold and even A6s may call from BTN. I'd be trying to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. Cbetting just bloats the pot and puts you in difficult spots when the board pairs.

 

[VladB850]

I think that I would have played the hand in the same way until the turn.
But if you didn't raised on the flop why you decided to do it on the turn?
I would continue with a check hopping for a reasonable call to see the river.

A call now is just lottery. Hopping for a spade on the river, hopping that he doesn't have the T or 2 spades in hand...

 

[Station_Master]

Preflop seems like a good spot to squeeze, but the sizing is too small. Should be at least 5x oop with 1 caller, maybe 6x when this deep. This would have got more folds, as multiway oop is not where you want to be.

On the flop I dont mind checking, but your hand is a bit weak to check raise and probably plays better with a small cbet rather than x-call.

On the turn I get the T is not necessarily good for villain as he would be unlikely to bet a T on the flop. But you dont have many Ts either! So I dont think it's a great spot to donk lead, I would just x-call any reasonable bet. Obviously v the shove you just have to fold.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop seems like a good spot to squeeze, but the sizing is too small. Should be at least 5x oop with 1 caller, maybe 6x when this deep. This would have got more folds, as multiway oop is not where you want to be.

Maybe in a cash game this can more of a squeeze spot, especially if we are only 100BB deep. But in this particular setting I dont like it. OP just sat down in Sunday Million and has no reads on anybody. Which is kind of important, because that particular tournament see a wide variety of players. There are top pros playing, but also a lot of recreational players, who often satellited in. Like presumably OP did himselfes, since he also post freeroll and microstakes hands.

In that situation it has a lot of value to just cruise for a few orbits and get a feel for your table, before you start playing any massive pots. This is not like a cash game, where you can just reload and then continue playing. OP most likely cant afford to reenter, so he is on a single bullet only, and even if he does reenter, he will be put at another table and have to start over again with no reads.

On the flop I dont mind checking, but your hand is a bit weak to check raise and probably plays better with a small cbet rather than x-call.

I agree. The best line is to put out a small C-bet, the second best is check-call and the worst is check-raise for the simple reason, that we are not happy, if we get action, which OP also realised.

On the turn I get the T is not necessarily good for villain as he would be unlikely to bet a T on the flop.

When both opponents have checked to him, it seems pretty reasonable, that BTN might bet small with a T for value and protection and also to simply take control of the hand. If someone gives him action, he can check back turn unimproved and then make a decision on the river. The biggest reason to not bet TX would be, that in a 3-bet pot JJ-KK is certainly present and will often be played as a check. Or even weak AX.

But by betting on the flop he can also start a multistreet bluff and eventually get those hands to fold, when stacks are 200BB deep. And if he get check-raised, he can just pitch it and be done without giving up to much equity. And once again we know nothing about this player. He could be recreational, so even if solvers say, he should not bet a T on the flop, maybe he does it anyway.

But you dont have many Ts either! So I dont think it's a great spot to donk lead, I would just x-call any reasonable bet. Obviously v the shove you just have to fold.

Completely agree.

 

[rastapapolos]

Hello, Interesting spot here. For me when Villain shoves OTT I'm thinking either he's a fish or very comptent.
If let's say he has the nuts, there are no reasons for him to shove IP.
The hands that plays like this are:
those with a lot of T (T8, T9, QT..) and 66. V is afraid of the river bringing an Ace, another T if he's holding 66, or a flush if Tx.
The bluffs are all the flush draws, Ax, sometimes KK or JJ.
Your play pre-flop is OK. I find the sizing correct you've done x4.33
flop: You should always c-bet on a wet board. for the sizing vs one player I'd like to go big more than 50% but here vs 2 opponents I'd like to size down to 30-40%.
Turn: I'm firing another 60-70% pot vs the button, If I get action it's a fold.
River: I check-call or check-fold. depends on what the river brings.

 

[dallam]

I would also just flat here, its just very early, everone has the same stacks in a PKO, and having no notes. I also think that AQo is a very strong hand to appear in your range coming to the further streets, others can easily trap themselves, however you are not determined to play big pots out of position with this offsuit combination.

On the flop: I personally like the raise better as an original agressor and other comments also told the right sizing- since you get information by that way, which we could be seeking for.

On Turn: the check call which was not particurarly weak the later street, but our hand became pretty much visible, we simply can never bet the Ten. Don't know with which combinations would the 10 appear in your 3bet range from BB this deep pre! So once again as I feel our hand such as AX, maybe a late bluff from KK-JJ, it's no wonder to see BTN appear at least with a 3-bet or a shove after your line.

Even your raising is telling what you have, as it's a PKO tournament and the excact check-1/3 pot line is not an option on this board(two flush draws and paired board) in this kind of game. Cause its not building the pot properly, nor balancing this hand on your side ever.
ˇ
While if you would check this once again, now all of your AsXs could appear in your hand.


All in all a great hand to post, and see where the agression is paying out, and how your stack and the pot size determine the level and the input of your game. So good luck!

 

[feisas7991]

larger pre.
check raise on the turn mostly. if he absolutely bombs u can tank call down him instead.
overall reasonably happy to stack off on most brick run outs.
Hope this helps and Good Luck

edit: missread positions.
id go for value from the flop and keep bombing on most run outs targeting Ax, check kinda doesnt achieve anything imo
they wont bluff this deep for stacks too often and you are screwed against sets anyway

 

[Matt_Burns88]

Interesting mix of opinions on pre-flop. At 100bb I think this is a clear squeeze spot, but as said, the raise needs to be bigger, otherwise you're giving your opponents too good a odds to not call. At 200bb, however, I think this becomes much more of a call, because we do not want to be playing a bloated pot OOP, potentially against two opponents.

As played, I much prefer c-betting the flop. We've shown aggression pre-flop, and the A hits our range more than the other ranges when they don't 4-bet.

I think this has already been said above, but once you check/call flop, you really can't be leading Turn when the T pairs. I'd be curious to know your reasons for leading here. Personally, I'm check/calling any reasonable bet.