$109 KO Series $150k grntd. Why i always let myself down just before final table.

How not to play approaching a big FT.


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HG83

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This is my first ever post in any forum guys so please be gentle :)
Hear i am 4 away from making my biggest final table appearance online playing the $109 KO series Fast on partypoker ($10.5k for first plus about $4/5k in bounties to the eventual winner). I have 8 million chips pretty much guaranteed final table appearance and i throw it all away and get knocked out in 12th position when a few hands before i was 5th of 12.
So this is how i let myself down big time. And guys please can you let me know how you guys would have played these hands differently and if you would or would not open with them in the first please.
12 left 2 tables of 6.
Hand 1.
We are in the c/off with 4s4d (28bb deep), we open for 2.1bb (I would normally not open this hand 8 or 9 handed with being this shallow in chips even though i was above average).
BT who doubled up a hand or two ago now jamms all-in for 14bb. Now this is where i'm not too sure if i made a big mistake or only a small one. This player had a $570 Bounty on his head which changes the equity value of my hand in this situation for me. This is a hand i would fold hear normally once i get jammed on with only 28bb behind.
So i ended up calling. He had TTs, flop came 5s6s7s and than blank on turn and river. Tbh i think i should have preserved my chips rather than gambling them hear.
So hand 1 again.
Hero 4s4d (28bb) opens to 2.1bb from c/off (6 handed), BT (14bb) jamms with a $570 bounty. Hero calls and doesn't get lucky.
Straight after the second mistake happened.
Hand 2. We hold KQo in HJ with 14bb, we jamm all-in and get cold by bb (11bb), who had A9o. Flop came JT7xx no A,9,K,Q. Player won with A high card.
Now after going through this hand over in my head what i think i should have done is Opened and folded if someone came in with a 3bet. Or maybe folded and taken a break after losing with 44s.
Now down to 3bb Hand 3.
Had J9o on BB c/off opens to 2x, we jamm with J9o and get lucky hitting a 9 and holding up.
Hand 4. We hold T8s on the sb with (8.5bb). Folds to us and we Jamm all-in and get snapped by BB who is the one who had TTs. This time he had AQo. Even though he hit an As on the flop we had out still with a flush draw and backdoor straight. Didn't happen and here we are writing about what could have been.
All these hands were one after the other. In 4 hands we went from 7+million to KOd in 12th.
One more hand guys, this is a few hands before all this chaos, I think this situation was a great spot to Iso considering the ICM implications.
Hand 5, (12 left)
Hero held J9dd on the c/off with 30bb behind. UTG min raises (20bb), HJ calls (31bb) and i was very tempted to ISO hear with J9dd. The players that were left weren't really looking to take High variance spots at this stage of the tournament, like me :icon_pale:mad::mad::vollkomme
What do you guys think of my thinking hear.
BTW guys is there a free software programme like Icmizer or an App on mobile that could be used to calculate what hands to open, shove, and fold so close to the final table and big money jumps.
Thank you too all that will be viewing and hopefully sharing my first ever post and giving there feedbacks.
 
DaveE

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This is my first ever post in any forum guys so please be gentle :)
Hear i am 4 away from making my biggest final table appearance online playing the $109 KO series Fast on Partypoker ($10.5k for first plus about $4/5k in bounties to the eventual winner). I have 8 million chips pretty much guaranteed final table appearance and i throw it all away and get knocked out in 12th position when a few hands before i was 5th of 12.
So this is how i let myself down big time. And guys please can you let me know how you guys would have played these hands differently and if you would or would not open with them in the first please.
12 left 2 tables of 6.
Hand 1.
We are in the c/off with 4s4d (28bb deep), we open for 2.1bb (I would normally not open this hand 8 or 9 handed with being this shallow in chips even though i was above average).
BT who doubled up a hand or two ago now jamms all-in for 14bb. Now this is where i'm not too sure if i made a big mistake or only a small one. This player had a $570 Bounty on his head which changes the equity value of my hand in this situation for me. This is a hand i would fold hear normally once i get jammed on with only 28bb behind.
So i ended up calling. He had TTs, flop came 5s6s7s and than blank on turn and river. Tbh i think i should have preserved my chips rather than gambling them hear.
So hand 1 again.
Hero 4s4d (28bb) opens to 2.1bb from c/off (6 handed), BT (14bb) jamms with a $570 bounty. Hero calls and doesn't get lucky.
Straight after the second mistake happened.
Hand 2. We hold KQo in HJ with 14bb, we jamm all-in and get cold by bb (11bb), who had A9o. Flop came JT7xx no A,9,K,Q. Player won with A high card.
Now after going through this hand over in my head what i think i should have done is Opened and folded if someone came in with a 3bet. Or maybe folded and taken a break after losing with 44s.
Now down to 3bb Hand 3.
Had J9o on BB c/off opens to 2x, we jamm with J9o and get lucky hitting a 9 and holding up.
Hand 4. We hold T8s on the sb with (8.5bb). Folds to us and we Jamm all-in and get snapped by BB who is the one who had TTs. This time he had AQo. Even though he hit an As on the flop we had out still with a flush draw and backdoor straight. Didn't happen and here we are writing about what could have been.
All these hands were one after the other. In 4 hands we went from 7+million to KOd in 12th.
One more hand guys, this is a few hands before all this chaos, I think this situation was a great spot to Iso considering the ICM implications.
Hand 5, (12 left)
Hero held J9dd on the c/off with 30bb behind. UTG min raises (20bb), HJ calls (31bb) and i was very tempted to ISO hear with J9dd. The players that were left weren't really looking to take High variance spots at this stage of the tournament, like me :icon_pale:mad::mad::vollkomme
What do you guys think of my thinking hear.
BTW guys is there a free software programme like Icmizer or an app on mobile that could be used to calculate what hands to open, shove, and fold so close to the final table and big money jumps.
Thank you too all that will be viewing and hopefully sharing my first ever post and giving there feedbacks.

You posted this in introductions, it's not going to get many responses in here. I'll request the mods to move it to the right section:)

BTW since it's in intros, welcome to the forum:)
 
terryk

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Welcome into the light! :captain: n nice cash! $$$ ,,,,still.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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the 44 hand is marginal at best. the bounty equity does probably tip it slightly towards a call but to really analyze I would need to see the payouts and the stack sizes. it's probably ok to call off (only because of bounty equity) but I'll often lean towards a raise/fold here to preserve my stack if I feel I'm in a good chip position and skill position vs my table. If it's not a boutny tourney I definitely raise fold it. If it's a bounty tourney I will raise fold it if my decisions facing the stacks behind are easy....just depends on the specific stack setups but if anyone behind me can put me into really awkward close spots with their 3b then I'll just open fold the 44.

the KQ hand is a jam all day long. raise folding is a disaster as you allow lesser hands to make you fold and you allow hands that you have great equity against to push you out. it's a disaster if a hand like 77 or A9 makes you fold when you have 40-48% equity vs hands like that and you already have money in the pot plus the blinds to win. it was well played, good job and sometimes these don't go our way.

regarding the missed opportunity with J9s I DO think it's a great spot to ISO some bounty equity. That's really what bounties are all about is knowing how preflop ranges matchup and anytime you can you want to ISO that bounty equity when you believe you have real fold equity.

In a spot like that if I covered both players I would always take the spot. if I cover 1 player and can really threaten the other player's stack (like the situation you have) I will usually take the spot (depending on the player strength and stacks behind...the weaker the blinds the more often I'll take it)

To win tourneys, you really have to open up at 14-10 players to run up a stack to bring to the final table. This is when many players nit up because the FT is so close but then they reach the FT and they are in ICM handcuffs while the chip leaders just run them over.

There is so much money up top and so many players playing scared at 14-10 players that if you are smart and selective and aggressive about it, you stand a decent chance of becoming one of those big stacks who can put the medium stacks into ICM hell. If you take some risks that frequently cause you to bust in 12th with a min cash but occasionally cause you to finish first or 2nd with a 25x cash....you are coming out WAY ahead, I promise. And you are having more fun and becoming a tougher player to play against. You will get more walks than you deserve and more free showdowns than you deserve when you cultivate this style.
 
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You posted this in introductions, it's not going to get many responses in here. I'll request the mods to move it to the right section:)

BTW since it's in intros, welcome to the forum:)


Thanks buddy. Not sure what to do on hear at the minute. Still learning and trying to get a hang of it.
 
H

HG83

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You posted this in introductions, it's not going to get many responses in here. I'll request the mods to move it to the right section:)

BTW since it's in intros, welcome to the forum:)


Thank you. Still trying to get a hang of it all. Really appreciate your help posting my post in the right place.
 
H

HG83

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the 44 hand is marginal at best. the bounty equity does probably tip it slightly towards a call but to really analyze I would need to see the payouts and the stack sizes. it's probably ok to call off (only because of bounty equity) but I'll often lean towards a raise/fold here to preserve my stack if I feel I'm in a good chip position and skill position vs my table. If it's not a boutny tourney I definitely raise fold it. If it's a bounty tourney I will raise fold it if my decisions facing the stacks behind are easy....just depends on the specific stack setups but if anyone behind me can put me into really awkward close spots with their 3b then I'll just open fold the 44.

the KQ hand is a jam all day long. raise folding is a disaster as you allow lesser hands to make you fold and you allow hands that you have great equity against to push you out. it's a disaster if a hand like 77 or A9 makes you fold when you have 40-48% equity vs hands like that and you already have money in the pot plus the blinds to win. it was well played, good job and sometimes these don't go our way.

regarding the missed opportunity with J9s I DO think it's a great spot to ISO some bounty equity. That's really what bounties are all about is knowing how preflop ranges matchup and anytime you can you want to ISO that bounty equity when you believe you have real fold equity.

In a spot like that if I covered both players I would always take the spot. if I cover 1 player and can really threaten the other player's stack (like the situation you have) I will usually take the spot (depending on the player strength and stacks behind...the weaker the blinds the more often I'll take it)

To win tourneys, you really have to open up at 14-10 players to run up a stack to bring to the final table. This is when many players nit up because the FT is so close but then they reach the FT and they are in ICM handcuffs while the chip leaders just run them over.

There is so much money up top and so many players playing scared at 14-10 players that if you are smart and selective and aggressive about it, you stand a decent chance of becoming one of those big stacks who can put the medium stacks into ICM hell. If you take some risks that frequently cause you to bust in 12th with a min cash but occasionally cause you to finish first or 2nd with a 25x cash....you are coming out WAY ahead, I promise. And you are having more fun and becoming a tougher player to play against. You will get more walks than you deserve and more free showdowns than you deserve when you cultivate this style.


Thank you for taking your time writing just a great response.

At the time when I had the 44, there was 3 players who had 10m or more,
3 players who had under 2m. 3 players who had between 6 and 3m.
1 players who had about 8m. And myself and another player had about the same stack size.
Avrg was about 6m.

Payouts were
1rst and 2.nd $10.5k
3rd 6.5k
4th 3.8k
5th 3k
6th 2.3k
7th 1.6k
8th 1.1k
9th to 12th $755. Not sure penny to penny but this info is not that far away from accurate stats.

I agree I think we should have folded and went for preserving our stack for the final table.
I'm sure there is away of finding out what we should be shoving and folding hear on an ICM calculator.

I'm all for bullying in situations like this, I think I was doing quite a bit of that and that's why I think BB called me with A9o for his tournament life.
I was aiming for the win, needed that $10.5k plus bounty win. Can't complain too much in the sence that this tournament did only cost me $22. But when you get so close to the big money you do start to critise yourself when you end up missing out.

Again thanks for taking your time to replying back.
 
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With people getting tight before the final table you should always expect to run into a big hand when you get a call on a push.

Pocket 4s is a no go. Bounties or no. Opening to 2.1bb then getting pushed on is insta fold.
Your open wasn't terrible but the call on the push was no bueno.

KQo is not a hand I push with over 10 BB and it is marginal at best even in the Hijack and even with 14BB. At this point you are not do or die . At 5 BB or less it's a push .

Your 3 BB push is not bad. At this point you have really bled chips and likely from hand 1 to hand 4 and aren't thinking correctly. After hand 1 you should of stepped away and sat out a hand or two. Got your breath and came back.

Looking at it from my perspective you were likely on tilt knowing you just gave up your final table appearance and that was seriously affecting your play.


Big money and bad decisions equal big tilt. I think you likely played solid poker up to this point. Then it went downhill quick. I've seen it happen to me. Learn from it and understand you did the right thing as far as going loose when others were tightening up but when facing a call for half your stack with a small pocket pair , you know it's time to fold.
 
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To begin with, i dont feel competent enough to comment on first two hands. Take it with huge grain of sault and maybe just food for thoughts but ill give my 2 cents anyway :) 44 highly depends on remaining bounty sizes, but even then it is still hard to justify a call given how tight his range is and how valuable chips are at this point. KQ is absolutely fine, though could be open fold as well.

Now here is the part that im feeling much more comfortable commenting.
J9o is a clear fold. you want to have some high cards (ideally without rags, K9>A2 in this situation with 3bb).

On T8s id need more data to tell if its ok or not, but at first glance it should be really close, though leaning towards fold if there are short stacks, that you cover.

Hope this helps and Good Luck on your journey!
 
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