$1 NLHE STT Turbo: Pushing range

[ClubArrow77]

Hand converter is a little screwy but I hope this works.

Blinds are 200/400


- $0.00/$0.00 (6 players)
Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

UTG: $4,825
MP: $2,940
CO: $1,800
BTN Hero: $2,540
SB: $3,775
BB: $4,120

Pre-flop: ($0) Hero is BTN and dealt
DealingDownCards, 3 folds, Hero bets $2,540 (All-in), SB calls $3,575 (All-in), BB folds

Flop: ($6,115) (0 players)

Turn: ($6,115) (0 players)

River: ($6,115) (0 players)


Question is, was this the right time to shove to steal the blinds? Or should I have waited another round for better cards?

 

[baudib1]

looks fine/standard vs. most opponents.

 

[BlueNowhere]

Standard, I wouldn't even mind jamming with worse

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

yeah completely fine!

 

[atlantafalcons0]

With less than seven big blinds, against standard opponents, this is a good move.

 

[cjatud2012]

It's fine, but I think it's closer than most people are saying. the fact is that you're in a $1 tourney, shoving into two players with bigger stacks than you, so their ranges are going to be wider than usual, making your push worse. However, you stack is indeed looking pretty desperate with less than 7bb's; there's only one stack smaller than you; and blinds are bound to go up pretty soon, so you don't have a lot of good options here.

 

[cjatud2012]

Also what site was this played on?

 

[Poker Orifice]

It's fine, but I think it's closer than most people are saying. the fact is that you're in a $1 tourney, shoving into two players with bigger stacks than you, so their ranges are going to be wider than usual,
Not sure why we would assume they're going to be calling us wider than usual? Neither is in good shape (neither has OP covered considerably).. OP's stack is still big enough to put a serious hurt on either blinds. (essentially spewing any FE they'd have for future shoves). Now if they were shorter than this, (or much larger) than I could see it... but at these stacks I'd never be assuming that they'd be calling off wider than usual (< although not sure what 'usual' is used as a comparison too?)
making your push worse. However, you stack is indeed looking pretty desperate with less than 7bb's; there's only one stack smaller than you; and blinds are bound to go up pretty soon, so you don't have a lot of good options here.

Shove is standard imo. You can be shoving 60% here & 98o easily falls into this range.
'nh'

 

[cjatud2012]

Shove is standard imo. You can be shoving 60% here & 98o easily falls into this range.
'nh'

I agree, but I still think it's close. If you put it into SNGWiz and you assume a calling range for both players of any pair, any ace, and ~any broadway (which is about 25%, and not all that unreasonable for this level and these stack sizes imo), you're actually losing in the long run. Now, SNGWiz can't figure future hands into its calculations, i.e. you're going to lose more tournament equity by skipping this push and letting the blinds hit you (especially if they've increased). So I still would say a push here is right, but not by much. Maybe that's weak, I dunno. But you can't ignore the fact that they might be calling pretty wide, and that's awful for your equity.

 

[baudib1]

I actually feel that the blinds will fold far too often in this spot and also spew in odd ways like calling minraises with ATC.

I am sure that games have gotten better recently but when I played low-level SNGs I was always shoving far more often than anyone else.

 

[ClubArrow77]

Also what site was this played on?

Party

 

[BlueNowhere]

cjatud2012:

Youre massively overestimating micro players, for the most they call tighter than they should, not wider. Better players know you're shoving wide and make the adjustment to call wide. Most of the times I'm in the blinds and someone shoves like this is a micro I call wide and 80% of the time they have a much better hand than I expect. Also you need to keep in mind we need to ensure we still have FE next time we shove which we won't if we don't find a spot to shove, this is as good as any.

 

[baudib1]

cjatud2012:

Youre massively overestimating micro players, for the most they call tighter than they should, not wider. Better players know you're shoving wide and make the adjustment to call wide. Most of the times I'm in the blinds and someone shoves like this is a micro I call wide and 80% of the time they have a much better hand than I expect. Also you need to keep in mind we need to ensure we still have FE next time we shove which we won't if we don't find a spot to shove, this is as good as any.

I agree with this. I think that if you are shoving every time it folds to you then even the dumbest players will adjust somewhat. There are times when I will fold what Wiz would say is a +EV shove because I feel people realize I'm shoving light. There are times I fold because I know the particular players are calling wider than I'd like.

However, on average players at this level are just folding too much.

 

[KingwithAxe1]

I think the opposite. the leader is not even double you yet. all 6 players are all relatively equal. Also both blinds had more chips than you. i would have waited another 6 to 10 hands and see if you gte a better starting hand.
IS the $1 a big deal for you? or was this just a quick time killer game?

 

[BlueNowhere]

I think the opposite. the leader is not even double you yet. all 6 players are all relatively equal. Also both blinds had more chips than you. i would have waited another 6 to 10 hands and see if you gte a better starting hand.
IS the $1 a big deal for you? or was this just a quick time killer game?

If blinds go through you again you lose any FE you may have as well as blinds going up again and crippling you. Are equity isn't too bad against his calling range if called as well as some FE. Whats the point in waiting for 10 hands and then maybe getting AA and a double up barely even helping you and not cashing anyway.

 

[WiZZiM]

Yep easy jam, you can probably go much wider, if the blinds are going up soon i'd be pretty happy shoving just about anything here perhaps folding out the worst 10-20% of hands if you feel like playing tight.

don't think blinds can call you very wide it's a big risk on their behalf and usually when $1 players get a stack of chips they tend to tighten up even more than usual.

 

[ClubArrow77]

I think the opposite. the leader is not even double you yet. all 6 players are all relatively equal. Also both blinds had more chips than you. i would have waited another 6 to 10 hands and see if you gte a better starting hand.
IS the $1 a big deal for you? or was this just a quick time killer game?

I guess between the two choices, the $1 are a big deal for me since they are the games im rolled for as the next buyin level is $3 which I am not rolled for.

 

[Poker Orifice]

IS the $1 a big deal for you?

Doubt this ^ has any relevance to the post. Pretty sure OP's just lookin' for what would be the best thing to do in the situation (shove/fold).

 

[KingwithAxe1]

well I am just saying are you playing this for practice or just a time killer. I would think for most of us a $1 buy would make us play loose cause it does not mean something. Therefore I understand you going all in. If that $1 is like $100 and seems important or a significant loss...then I would play tigher to cash. All the other players are in same situation so have some patience.

 

[WiZZiM]

well I am just saying are you playing this for practice or just a time killer. I would think for most of us a $1 buy would make us play loose cause it does not mean something. Therefore I understand you going all in. If that $1 is like $100 and seems important or a significant loss...then I would play tigher to cash. All the other players are in same situation so have some patience.

My rationale is pretty much the opposite of this.

 

[KingwithAxe1]

WizziM.... So you play tight when you playing pennies with your kids? and if you are playing with you house on the line, you play loose. That does not make sense to me.

 

[cjatud2012]

WizziM.... So you play tight when you playing pennies with your kids? and if you are playing with you house on the line, you play loose. That does not make sense to me.

It's not about that, it's about optimal vs. sub-optimal play. Doesn't matter what the stakes are.

 

[WiZZiM]

WizziM.... So you play tight when you playing pennies with your kids? and if you are playing with you house on the line, you play loose. That does not make sense to me.

It really has nothing to do with the buyin, moreso with the players you will be expecting to face.

Thus...

In a small stakes game, i'd expect play to be loose early, so i'd probably tighten up in early game, then punish them later in the game with a lot of aggression as these players pretty much all fall into the loose early/tight late "strategy".

Now in a $100 game, i'd expect the play to be way way better, so if everyone is playing an "optimal" game strategy (tight early, push/fold late) then i'd definitely open up my ranges in the early game, and keep up the aggression all game. I'd be doing this because i'd expect these players to be better than me, so i'd be trying to find some chips where i normally wouldn't have too. Like, in a low buyin game, these players make so many mistakes late game that we can get away with playing in marginal spots postflop in the early game, i don't think that's the case in a higher buyin.

There isn't really much you can do though, i'm not talking about going crazy and opening 50% of hands early, but i would be playing looser overall in a higher buyin game.

 

[WiZZiM]

But all of that is irrelevant really, as i doubt anyone on this forum has enough $$ to play the super high buyins comfortably.

 

[baudib1]

There's no point in playing high-buyin SNGs online.