$1 NLHE MTT Bounty: Do you call all in for about 50 big blinds with kk?

[jaworek1405]

https://www.boomplayer.com/32428623_3620C7B644

Hello guys, it was bounty builder series tournament for 1,1$ and it was new table with new players, I hadn't reads on my opponents. In tournament played about 12 000 people, here about 500 left and my position in tournament was about 65 in this moment. I was chip leader on this table. I'm not sure if I made good call with kk. Me and my opponent, we were big stacks on this table. Do you ever fold kk to his very big allin for about 50bb in this phase of tournament? I was sure that I made good call. What do you think?

 

[fundiver199]

No I never fold KK preflop with these stack sizes, and especially not when its only two players involved in the action, and it goes open, 3-bet, 4-bet jam. He can have other hands here as well than just AA. At least QQ and AK. You are also getting a price after already putting in a large 3-bet.

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

Its just a cooler. I will be call this even without knockouts.

 

[Brawo]

For me 3-bet is too big, 120-140k will be much better.

It is micro stakes tournament, he can shove there even AKo QQ or even TT, never fold KK in this spot. You invested in this pot around 25% of your stack, you can't avoid call all-in with KK.

 

[nikoszwtos93]

I see my self never folding there..Especially at bounty.
What was his bounty do you remember?
I finished 625 on this tourney..Was a good one

 

[jaworek1405]

I see my self never folding there..Especially at bounty.
What was his bounty do you remember?
I finished 625 on this tourney..Was a good one

His bounty was about 2$ if I good remember

 

[300HPGOD]

For you to believe this should be a fold it would mean that the range of the initial raiser is only AA, KK (not likely since we have 2) and QQ. This range would have you crushing a hand, tied, and being crushed with aces. I think the initial raiser has a lot more hands than just those including AK suited along with the possibly a bluff depending on what type of player he is (you dont know) and also what his current feelings are on squeezes (he may just feel you are squeezing with some Ax hands). This is always a call and it just happens he had the Aces.

If you played this hand and the opponent turned over anything else you would have never even questioned the call.

 

[fundiver199]

For you to believe this should be a fold it would mean that the range of the initial raiser is only AA, KK (not likely since we have 2) and QQ.

Even against a hypothetical range of only QQ-AA its still a call, because we put in a lot of chips already, so we dont need 50% equity to break even.

 

[mara2259]

The first thing that came to mind is hard to believe that the distribution of cards is random. It is also surprising that a maniac with a backdoor flash did not participate in the fight for sweat. You are just out of luck. I think you had no options to lose fewer chips. Is it possible to fold your kings after a re-raise, but this is after I know the villain's hand.

 

[300HPGOD]

Even against a hypothetical range of only QQ-AA its still a call, because we put in a lot of chips already, so we dont need 50% equity to break even.

This is true but we also must put some value on our tournament life. If I had a large stack and you told me it was 50 50 whether I would win or be knocked out of the tourney I would probably fold unless pot odds are insane. Here, even with what we put in it would not be enough for me personally to take a 50 50 shot.

I do want to reiterate I am not saying the hand is a fold, I am just trying to come up with a scenario and a reasoning behind it on a time I would fold.

 

[fundiver199]

A "tournament life" has no value at all, unless its a once-in-a-lifetime experience, like you saved up to play in the wsop main event, because its your dream. In all other situations we should think in ICM. Which mean, that in a spot, where we need 35% equity to break even in chip EV, maybe we want to have 40%. Which mean, that if we have 50%, its still a clear call, even it will end our tournament half the time. Ending the tournament does not matter at all, because we can just buy into another one and continue playing.

 

[Jon Poker]

Please dont take this the wrong way but I an generally harsh when I see posts titled like this and concentrating on hands like this....

KK is the 2nd nuts preflop...if you are not willing to go all in with the 2nd nuts preflop then you should probably quit the game altogether. This is a snap call, all day every day...its a snap call for a $1 game and it's a snap call for a $150k game. If our opponent has AA, good for them - it's the oldest cooler in the book - but we cant be results oriented in this spot! KK is simply too strong to fold preflop unless you have a deadset read your opponent has AA and I've only ever picked up that tell once and it was a live game with an older gentleman I had played with for about 10 years - other than that I've never folded KK heads up preflop. Doing so is a massive mistake and questioning it whenever you lose is also a massive mistake - if that's how you feel this is definitely not the game for you.

The hand plays itself although I do not like the preflop 3bet sizing. You nearly 7x'd it!! That just screams strength and likely gets weaker hands to fold in which case you lose value. Even with the raise and a call I think anything above 5x here is just too much - personally I would size it to about 145k - 165k. I think that gets to job done well enough and it gives them room to call/shove which is what I want!

As played, after our gigantic 3bet I am snap calling the shove - as I said, running into AA is the oldest cooler in the book and we cant be concerned with that because it IS going to happen from time to time. We need to be ok with the results and realize our play was correct.

Had your opponent shoved QQ and your KK held up - this hand wouldn't even be posted here for review and you wouldn't be questioning your play.

So to summarize - NEVER be afraid to get it all in preflop with KK - dont 3bet so damn large lol - and the rest of the hand played itself as normal, nothing you can do.

 

[Tvorets]

I would not have dropped KK in this situation. You're just out of luck.

 

[fundiver199]

If we never fold KK preflop, its generally not a leak, except in special situations like a DON or a satellite tournament, where we can fold our way to a sure win. Ofter than that the few spots, where we can consider to fold KK, are situations like this one, where we are 100BB or more deep, its a full ring game, and there is multiway action in early position.

In a situation like the one, OP was in, AA vs KK is just the oldest cooler in the book. In the first season of the TV-show "big game", the last loose cannon won the NAPT passport worth 50k$ in one of the very last hands of the show by having AA against KK. And he openly admitted, this was the only way, it could have been done.

 

[jaworek1405]

So to summarize - NEVER be afraid to get it all in preflop with KK - dont 3bet so damn large lol - and the rest of the hand played itself as normal, nothing you can do.

Hello guys, I play poker several years and I probably never fold pocket kings pre flop versus one player. I think like all of you that it is a cooler and it happens sometimes in this game. Sometimes I have pocket aces and my opponent have pocket kings, it is normal, I accept it, it is part of game. This time my opponent had AA and I had kk. I lose most of my stack. It was a little hurt me, because as I said in first post in tournament were about 12 000 people, before that hand about 500 left and I was in about 65 position. I had good position in this tournament to take better place. Probably first time I wasn't sure if I made good call with pocket kings.

 

[fundiver199]

With 500 players left the final table is still miles away, and you will need to take many more risks in order to get there. These huge field MTTs are basically like buying a lottery ticket.