$1 NLHE MTT: 69o 2pair and a river raise

[flattershay]

Hi guys. I got some questions about this hand.
1. Completing on SB with 69o was ok or bad? Which types of hands we should complete on SB?
2. What do you think about leading on flop when we hit 2 pair or check-raise is better?
3. Call river or fold?
Opp is a passive guy with 34/8 over 77 hands.


poker stars, $0.98 Buy-in (60/120 blinds, 15 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): 7,495 (62.5 bb)
BB: 2,693 (22.4 bb)
UTG+1: 9,920 (82.7 bb)
UTG+2: 3,300 (27.5 bb)
MP1: 2,433 (20.3 bb)
MP2: 5,778 (48.2 bb)
MP3: 7,332 (61.1 bb)
CO: 2,775 (23.1 bb)
BTN: 6,389 (53.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6

9

4 folds, MP3 calls 120, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop: (495) 4

6

9

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 checks

Turn: (495) Q

(3 players)
Hero bets 360, BB folds, MP3 calls 360

River: (1,215) K

(2 players)
Hero bets 814, MP3 raises to 1,628, Hero folds

Results: 2,843 pot
Final Board: 4

6

9

Q

K

Hero mucked 6

9

and lost (-1,309 net)
MP3 mucked and won 2,843 (1,534 net)

 

[MemphisGrind]

Hi guys. I got some questions about this hand.
1. Completing on SB with 69o was ok or bad? Which types of hands we should complete on SB?
2. What do you think about leading on flop when we hit 2 pair or check-raise is better?
3. Call river or fold?
Opp is a passive guy with 34/8 over 77 hands.


Poker Stars, $0.98 Buy-in (60/120 blinds, 15 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): 7,495 (62.5 bb)
BB: 2,693 (22.4 bb)
UTG+1: 9,920 (82.7 bb)
UTG+2: 3,300 (27.5 bb)
MP1: 2,433 (20.3 bb)
MP2: 5,778 (48.2 bb)
MP3: 7,332 (61.1 bb)
CO: 2,775 (23.1 bb)
BTN: 6,389 (53.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6

9

4 folds, MP3 calls 120, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop: (495) 4

6

9

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 checks

Turn: (495) Q

(3 players)
Hero bets 360, BB folds, MP3 calls 360

River: (1,215) K

(2 players)
Hero bets 814, MP3 raises to 1,628, Hero folds

Results: 2,843 pot
Final Board: 4

6

9

Q

K

Hero mucked 6

9

and lost (-1,309 net)
MP3 mucked and won 2,843 (1,534 net)

So here is where I'm at on this hand.. Completing the SB is fine. I personally fold my sb a decent amount of the time especially going multi-way because over time I'm throwing chips away in the long run not to mention the many times we get awkward flops and have to try and navigate the hand multi-way OOP. I always have been and always will be an advocate for not limping, but raising or folding pre.

So taking the line where we complete....

I def. lead here for a small value bet on the flop, you have a multi-way pot with one limper and the bb that didn't have to defend and didn't raise. This board hits their range a lot weaker than it hits yours, there is a lot of hands that call your value bet very far behind, and that is what we strive for in poker. I don't like the check here because I don't feel that the hands that are going to bet the flop to allow you to check raise are going to continue and a large majority of the time it's going to check through costing you value.

So taking the line where you check flop and bet turn. ...

I like your 3/4th pot bet when the drawing card hits, and you get called by the limper.. they have a lot of flush draws in their range along with some trashy Q's and still some mix match hands that have the smaller pairs in them. You also have the pocket 4's and pocket 6's

Now to the river...

Brick on the river which we should love. You lead out for value which I like but then fold to a click back raise when you're ahead of so much of their range.. I feel like it's a clear call. Even if you lose the hand. You learn so much about this opponent for a good price, but I think you take this one down if you call.

All my opinions and as always would love to hear others feed back as well.

 

[Poker Orifice]

So here is where I'm at on this hand.. Completing the SB is fine. I personally fold my sb a decent amount of the time especially going multi-way because over time I'm throwing chips away in the long run not to mention the many times we get awkward flops and have to try and navigate the hand multi-way OOP. I always have been and always will be an advocate for not limping, but raising or folding pre.

So taking the line where we complete....

I def. lead here for a small value bet on the flop, you have a multi-way pot with one limper and the bb that didn't have to defend and didn't raise. This board hits their range a lot weaker than it hits yours, there is a lot of hands that call your value bet very far behind, and that is what we strive for in poker. I don't like the check here because I don't feel that the hands that are going to bet the flop to allow you to check raise are going to continue and a large majority of the time it's going to check through costing you value.

So taking the line where you check flop and bet turn. ...

I like your 3/4th pot bet when the drawing card hits, and you get called by the limper.. they have a lot of flush draws in their range along with some trashy Q's and still some mix match hands that have the smaller pairs in them. You also have the pocket 4's and pocket 6's

Now to the river...

Brick on the river which we should love. You lead out for value which I like but then fold to a click back raise when you're ahead of so much of their range.. I feel like it's a clear call. Even if you lose the hand. You learn so much about this opponent for a good price, but I think you take this one down if you call.

All my opinions and as always would love to hear others feed back as well.

crying call at best here (but doubt I'm folding getting 4to1 or whatever it is)

What do we beat that a $1 buyin player is doing this with?

 

[MemphisGrind]

crying call at best here (but doubt I'm folding getting 4to1 or whatever it is)

What do we beat that a $1 buyin player is doing this with?

I don't know if maybe I'm wrongly presuming that players at "$1" buy in levels would take the same thought process as I would on missed straight draws and missed flush draws to click back raise instead of put in a huge raise because the huge raise looks bluffy, and the click back looks stronger. Therefore I would be clicking back with missed flush draws and missed straight draws. I can also see some combos of Kx feeling like they get extra value when hitting the river so hitting the click back instead of realizing there new found showdown value.

 

[MemphisGrind]

crying call at best here (but doubt I'm folding getting 4to1 or whatever it is)

What do we beat that a $1 buyin player is doing this with?

Same question to you. what are the combo's that you're worried about that play this line that force you to feel behind?

 

[omnom8]

Same question to you. what are the combo's that you're worried about that play this line that force you to feel behind?

44 66 99 TJ 4Q 4K QK 6Q 6K

so passive guy will call all this to the river

i will call here only if i want to look what he has and i decide to pay for this )

also i will bet flop 99% times in multi pot

 

[MemphisGrind]

44 66 99 TJ 4Q 4K QK 6Q 6K

so passive guy will call all this to the river

i will call here only if i want to look what he has and i decide to pay for this )

also i will bet flop 99% times in multi pot

I agree. there are only 9 combos that beat you and many more combos that you're ahead of. I can see where Poker Orifice is coming from with the "crying call" but I still feel like we snap and table a winner. I'm never folding this river against this player in this circumstance.

 

[omnom8]

I agree. there are only 9 combos that beat you and many more combos that you're ahead of. I can see where Poker Orifice is coming from with the "crying call" but I still feel like we snap and table a winner. I'm never folding this river against this player in this circumstance.

circumstance new word for me ) will try to remember

ye but in a hole i dont think so and it is very bad situation and its bad play for me. much more better to bet flop. it is to thin to bet river and to call this vs very thin bluff range.

if i will check flop ( in 1% ) i will bet turn and jam river or check/call river. i dont like river bet. in a hole.

these stack i will check call.

 

[MemphisGrind]

circumstance new word for me ) will try to remember

ye but in a hole i dont think so and it is very bad situation and its bad play for me. much more better to bet flop. it is to thin to bet river and to call this vs very thin bluff range.

if i will check flop ( in 1% ) i will bet turn and jam river or check/call river. i dont like river bet. in a hole.

these stack i will check call.

I get that it's hard to give analysis on a hand when you wouldn't be in that spot to begin with. that is why in my Original reply I said that I would bet flop, and I gave my opinion on how I would handle the hand "IF" I played the way the hand OP played the hand.

 

[flattershay]

I thought that opponents wouldn't have hands that will call my flop lead on sucha a dry board and that's why I checked. Should I always lead on the flop with 2pairs? Clicking back mostly means strenght at these limits. I don't think he did it with bluff, especially on the river. Still don't know about river though. How Opp played this hand, I feel like we mostly beaten. Top or 2nd pairs would call and better 2 pairs will raise. Can't think of a hand that we beat on the river when we get raised.

 

[MemphisGrind]

I thought that opponents wouldn't have hands that will call my flop lead on sucha a dry board and that's why I checked. Should I always lead on the flop with 2pairs? Clicking back mostly means strenght at these limits. I don't think he did it with bluff, especially on the river. Still don't know about river though. How Opp played this hand, I feel like we mostly beaten. Top or 2nd pairs would call and better 2 pairs will raise. Can't think of a hand that we beat on the river when we get raised.

No you don't always lead on the flop with two pair. For example, a very aggro player in position. You can check to them let them bluff then check raise. The only reason the lead is a better idea here is because you're not polarizing your hand. a lead on this board in a limped pot looks like you're trying to steal the pot and hope they missed which leads to calls by weak hands like a 4 or a 6.

If at those limits the players aren't bluffing on click backs I apologize for my incorrect analysis. It's been a long time since I've played at those limits. Leveling is one of my biggest leaks. You still have to call here. If they really don't bluff at these stakes I understand more why poker orifice says a crying call... but you still need to find a call, if at the very least cheap info.

 

[flattershay]

No you don't always lead on the flop with two pair. For example, a very aggro player in position. You can check to them let them bluff then check raise. The only reason the lead is a better idea here is because you're not polarizing your hand. a lead on this board in a limped pot looks like you're trying to steal the pot and hope they missed which leads to calls by weak hands like a 4 or a 6.

If at those limits the players aren't bluffing on click backs I apologize for my incorrect analysis. It's been a long time since I've played at those limits. Leveling is one of my biggest leaks. You still have to call here. If they really don't bluff at these stakes I understand more why poker orifice says a crying call... but you still need to find a call, if at the very least cheap info.

I think that a better way to play against an aggessive player is just check-call all 3 streets, because if we raise on the flop he'll fold all his blufs. I almost never lead on a raised or on a limped pot, so I'll try to imply this strategy on my game in future hands. Next time I'll call for sure. Thanks for your hand analysis. I appreciate it so much.

 

[MemphisGrind]

I think that a better way to play against an aggessive player is just check-call all 3 streets, because if we raise on the flop he'll fold all his blufs. I almost never lead on a raised or on a limped pot, so I'll try to imply this strategy on my game in future hands. Next time I'll call for sure. Thanks for your hand analysis. I appreciate it so much.

One thing for sure we are all learning everyday. I appreciate your posts. I pick something up from CC daily. This site has been invaluable.

It's good to keep in mind your perceived range. I'm known to check raise light in the games that I play. Balancing this play earns me heaps of value in spots that normally wouldn't for others. If the aggro player feels you're only check raising nut hands most competent players will obviously fold, but when they are aware of their constant aggression they will expect to get check raised at a higher frequency.

 

[MemphisGrind]

I think that a better way to play against an aggessive player is just check-call all 3 streets, because if we raise on the flop he'll fold all his blufs. I almost never lead on a raised or on a limped pot, so I'll try to imply this strategy on my game in future hands. Next time I'll call for sure. Thanks for your hand analysis. I appreciate it so much.

just re-read my reply I see where we missed each other haha I didn't mean check-raise lol I type quicker than I think sometimes. Yes in this case against a reg. aggro player, checking to let them bet and then flatting is the best option most often.

I'm watching the super high roller bowl V and trying to reply at the same time lol I have prolly not made much sense this thread.

 

[flattershay]

One thing for sure we are all learning everyday. I appreciate your posts. I pick something up from CC daily. This site has been invaluable.

True. I think even with hand posting and thinking about what I did wrong and why, will make you a little bit a better player. Idk how to read opponents range and with hands they'll continue on certain flops. Is there any video or book about this?

 

[oreleo]

Flop fold. On that flop bet bet bet. River call. I would make so.

 

[FernandPoker]

Honestly, I think I would call here, even though I wouldn't have played the hand like you, so that changes everything..