$1 NL HE MTT:

[I Live Poker]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

1

VP$IP

21

PFR

19

Currency

$

888Poker, $0.91 + $0.09 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (12 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 2,288 (19 bb)
UTG+1: 10,569 (88 bb)
MP: 2,588 (22 bb)
MP+1: 4,174 (35 bb)
CO: 1,341 (11 bb)
BU: 1,437 (12 bb)
SB: 5,138 (43 bb)
BB (Hero): 4,187 (35 bb)

Pre-Flop: (276) Hero is BB with 2♣ T♥
3 players fold, MP+1 raises to 240, CO calls 240, BTN calls 240, 1 fold, Hero calls 120

Flop: (1,116) 2♥ 2♠ A♦ (4 players)
Hero checks, MP+1 checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: (1,116) Q♦ (4 players)
Hero bets 550, MP+1 calls 550, CO raises to 1,089 (all-in), BU folds, Hero calls 539, MP+1 calls 539

River: (4,383) K♦ (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 2,833 (all-in), BB (Hero) folds

Total pot: 4,383

Showdown:
MP+1 shows Q♣ Q♥ (a full house, Queens full of Twos)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 86%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 98%, River: 100%)

CO shows 3♣ 2♦ (three of a kind, Twos)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 14%, Flop: 91%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

MP+1 wins 4,383

 

[rhoudini]

Definitely a fold! Two reasons why:
1. You are out of position.
2. T2o is not a good hand. It plays terribly because there is no connection between the cards. In rare occasions you will flop a good hand, but even two pairs is vulnerable agains other two pairs.
3. This hand also does not play well against many players in the pot. In these spots I would call only with small pocket pairs (22-88), suited connectors (65s+), offsuit connectors (JTo+) and some cards with a gap (perhaps T8s+).

I believe that playing T2o makes our next decisions much more difficult if we hit the cards. That is what happened in this hand.

You have not asked about the flop, but let me raise a question for discussion: there is nothing wrong with checking and wait for a c-bet or some other player lead. However, is a donkbet in the flop interesting in this spot specially in micro stakes? If yes, in what scenario could we lead the flop?

 

[Gritz18]

You're out of position, even though it's a cheap call, for a big pot, but e of won't play well and there are a lot of people in the hand, I would have folded so I wouldn't get in trouble if I hit something.

 

[eetenor]

888Poker, $0.91 + $0.09 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (12 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 2,288 (19 bb)
UTG+1: 10,569 (88 bb)
MP: 2,588 (22 bb)
MP+1: 4,174 (35 bb)
CO: 1,341 (11 bb)
BU: 1,437 (12 bb)
SB: 5,138 (43 bb)
BB (Hero): 4,187 (35 bb)

Pre-Flop: (276) Hero is BB with 2♣ T♥
3 players fold, MP+1 raises to 240, CO calls 240, BTN calls 240, 1 fold, Hero calls 120

Flop: (1,116) 2♥ 2♠ A♦ (4 players)
Hero checks, MP+1 checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: (1,116) Q♦ (4 players)
Hero bets 550, MP+1 calls 550, CO raises to 1,089 (all-in), BU folds, Hero calls 539, MP+1 calls 539

River: (4,383) K♦ (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 2,833 (all-in), BB (Hero) folds

Total pot: 4,383

Showdown:
MP+1 shows Q♣ Q♥ (a full house, Queens full of Twos)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 86%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 98%, River: 100%)

CO shows 3♣ 2♦ (three of a kind, Twos)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 14%, Flop: 91%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

MP+1 wins 4,383

Just no need to play this hand the % of good boards for us is so low that even when we hit like this we can still lose- 4 way + two of the callers are soo short that if they have anything they will see all 5 cards

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Even to a minraise we dont need to defend offsuit junk and especially not multiway, so I would just fold.

Flop
Stacks are short enough, that you can get all the chips in by going bet, bet, jam, and its unlikely, someone is going to bet with pure air into 3 opponents. I also dont think, weak AX hands like A6 or even AT are always going to bet, but they are never going to fold, at least not to the first bet. And for those reasons I prefer to lead out AKA "donk bet" in this situation. The main reason is, that its a multiway pot, where initiative tend to matter less than hitting the flop.

Turn
Definitely need to start building up that pot now. The CO jam does not reopen the betting, so no other option than to just call and take a river. Which would likely be the play anyway, since you want to keep MP+1 in with AX hands, that are drawing nearly dead.

River
Pretty nasty river card completing both a flush and straight. The first question is, can you still jam for value, and I think, the answer is no. If MP+1 had a hand like AK or AQ, he would most likely have bet the flop. So you would be trying to target AJ or worse, and if he is any type of player, he is probably not going to give you action with those hands. Especially since this is a protected pot. CO is already all-in, and there is no side pot, so you cant ever bluff the river. So the play here is to check and hope, he check behind, and you have the best hand. He does not check behind though, and what I just said about you not being able to ever have a bluff, also goes for him. Its also not likely, that AJ or worse does this "for value", unless he is really bad. So for me this is a sigh-fold.

Results
Basically a bad beat, but while super results oriented leading out on the flop might have changed the outcome, since its very difficult for him to call with an underpair, when he have 2 other players left to act behind him. Luckily the river card allowed you to get away relatively cheaply, and I think, you played the turn and river well. But other than being a little more disciplined postflop, the most important thing to take away from this hand is to start incorporating some flop leads AKA "donk bets" into your game, rather than always checking to the preflop raiser without even considering your options.

 

[I Live Poker]

As already mentioned, it really is a hand that plays very badly post flop and I was out of position, but what I think weighed the most in this spot was really the stack depth.
My decision to complete the SB was based on the pot odds, and upon checking that I realized that I was really close to a call, and this type of hand when you don't hit a monster on the flop is an easy decision to fold.
Well already on the flop I chose to check raise for value, as there was a short stack villain I thought it would be a good option against 3 players. But that didn't happen.
Turn Qd , well then on the turn I made about half of shorty's stack by targeting his jam and also trying to extract some more information from villain that caused me risk. When he only called 1/2 the pot, I was on high alert.
Why that?
-On a board with a doubled card, A, Q and flush draw, with a villain with TAG stats and playing decently (despite very little sampling)..
With which hand would he make this flat?
- Surely he already excludes the Ax from his hand, and because he was TAG and had a doubled card, I thought that either he would be calling with a flush draw, or he already had a fullhouse. (Really these hands are always tricky to play, but I was willing to pay the price of folding)
Then the shortstack villain goes allin, as I was already partially committed to the pot at this point, I called, thinking that maybe in his first call there would also be the middle/high pair range 77<JJ , and maybe he would fold or play the call turn and check check river for the dawn show.
On the river the decision was clear.
I posted this hand because it's a very unusual hand, I fully agree that in general it's always very difficult to play garbage hands, however I had pot odds to call, and if you play carefully, you won't necessarily throw your tournament away.

 

[I Live Poker]

Preflop
Even to a minraise we dont need to defend offsuit junk and especially not multiway, so I would just fold.

Flop
Stacks are short enough, that you can get all the chips in by going bet, bet, jam, and its unlikely, someone is going to bet with pure air into 3 opponents. I also dont think, weak AX hands like A6 or even AT are always going to bet, but they are never going to fold, at least not to the first bet. And for those reasons I prefer to lead out AKA "donk bet" in this situation. The main reason is, that its a multiway pot, where initiative tend to matter less than hitting the flop.

Turn
Definitely need to start building up that pot now. The CO jam does not reopen the betting, so no other option than to just call and take a river. Which would likely be the play anyway, since you want to keep MP+1 in with AX hands, that are drawing nearly dead.

River
Pretty nasty river card completing both a flush and straight. The first question is, can you still jam for value, and I think, the answer is no. If MP+1 had a hand like AK or AQ, he would most likely have bet the flop. So you would be trying to target AJ or worse, and if he is any type of player, he is probably not going to give you action with those hands. Especially since this is a protected pot. CO is already all-in, and there is no side pot, so you cant ever bluff the river. So the play here is to check and hope, he check behind, and you have the best hand. He does not check behind though, and what I just said about you not being able to ever have a bluff, also goes for him. Its also not likely, that AJ or worse does this "for value", unless he is really bad. So for me this is a sigh-fold.

Results
Basically a bad beat, but while super results oriented leading out on the flop might have changed the outcome, since its very difficult for him to call with an underpair, when he have 2 other players left to act behind him. Luckily the river card allowed you to get away relatively cheaply, and I think, you played the turn and river well. But other than being a little more disciplined postflop, the most important thing to take away from this hand is to start incorporating some flop leads AKA "donk bets" into your game, rather than always checking to the preflop raiser without even considering your options.

Thank you, excellent point.🙏

 

[fundiver199]

As already mentioned, it really is a hand that plays very badly post flop and I was out of position

Yes exactly. And against multible opponents as well.

, but what I think weighed the most in this spot was really the stack depth.

Not quite sure what you mean by this. You were 35BB effective against the original raiser, which is very normal for a tournament. CO and BTN however were each only 11-12BB deep. Did you think, this was good or bad for you? By the way CO and BTN should never be just calling this shallow. They should always either jam or fold, which just goes to show, how soft a 1$ MTT is.

My decision to complete the SB was based on the pot odds, and upon checking that I realized that I was really close to a call, and this type of hand when you don't hit a monster on the flop is an easy decision to fold.

Its a very common misconception, that you are getting better pot odds, when multible people have already called, and therefore you should defend your blinds wider. You can even hear commentators say this in older TV poker shows. But actually its just the opposite. Yes pot odds are better, but your equity is worse, since you are competing against not one but three other hands, and there are more people fighting for the ante and the dead small blind.

And its not like T2 offsuit is an implied odds type hand, where its good to have multible opponents, because it increase your chance to get paid off. Most commonly you will flop a pair of T with no kicker, or you will flop bottom pair. And those hands would rather be against just one opponent as opposed to three. Because then you can usually check-call a C-bet and perhaps get yourself to showdown. Whereas multiway you generally need to check-fold, even when you flop a pair.

No it wont end your tournament to stick in the extra blind preflop. But each of these small negative EV decisions, we make, reduce our long term results. And sometimes it can lead to a snowball effect, where we end up losing a big pot, as was the case here. So why not just clean up these small preflop mistakes, if your goal is to play well and make money? Of course if you just want to have some fun for your one dollar investment and see some flops, thats ok as well. But then there is no reason to share the hand to a forum and ask, if you should fold or call

 

[I Live Poker]

Not quite sure what you mean by this. You were 35BB effective against the original raiser, which is very normal for a tournament. CO and BTN however were each only 11-12BB deep. Did you think, this was good or bad for you? By the way CO and BTN should never be just calling this shallow. They should always either jam or fold, which just goes to show, how soft a 1$ MTT is.

No way, it's too bad. I mean, that was considered my biggest mistake, just because it was a preflop fold, I was lucky to be able to make a decent line up to the point where I had stacks to fold on the river.

No it wont end your tournament to stick in the extra blind preflop. But each of these small negative EV decisions, we make, reduce our long term results. And sometimes it can lead to a snowball effect, where we end up losing a big pot, as was the case here. So why not just clean up these small preflop mistakes, if your goal is to play well and make money? Of course if you just want to have some fun for your one dollar investment and see some flops, thats ok as well. But then there is no reason to share the hand to a forum and ask, if you should fold or call

It is clear that this is not common, it was a very special case. "defend T2o from flat sb"
But I think that in multi way spots, with pot odds to flop, the hands that are favored are exactly these, the villains will have many connected hands, low suits often blocking each other... the equity is bad even for pocket aces in spots multy way, but the point of stack depth, in this specific spot was what weighed more negatively.
Of course it's a marginal move and I should avoid these difficult decisions. But whenever possible, I try to explore these dark places, I like to have a distorted image.

 

[eetenor]

"But I think that in multi way spots, with pot odds to flop, the hands that are favored are exactly these,"

There is a free program called Equilab if you put this scenario into Equilab and run the equities which will account for all situations not just flopping the nuts---you will see that 102off is much worse then 23 24 25 and 65 54 is way better than those

If we are thinking of only playing for stacks when we flop the nuts the board is going to look like 222 TTT all 22x TTx boards are not the nuts 4 way if someone wants to stack off and is not a fool

So T2 is high risk in this spot as in this hand we lost to flushes -straights and full houses here by the river-but when we do have the board locked up 4 way only the worst players will payoff for stacks

I like your thinking about taking thin spots and targeting weak V for stacks 4 way but you are handicapping yourself with this type of hand selection