$1.65 NLHE MTT Turbo Rebuy: Calling off Short Stack jam wit A/J

theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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About 30 places until we hit ITM in a 1000gtd 1.65 buy-in.

I'm a medium stack - might have been right at average stack size with about 28bb.
At this point - I assured of a min-cash - I can fold into the money.

A short stack min-opens from UTG it fold all the way around to the button - who is a wild player - he jams for 12bb total, and the UTG player has 11bb behind.

I have seen this wild player shove over EP opens with 66s, A/9 suited, and K/J off.

I have very little info on the UTG opener, however - a tiny stack shoved on his EP open the orbit before and he called with 55s.

I'm sitting in the bb with A/J off.

Call? Fold?

Both these players are - hmmm - less disciplined from my point of view.

Min cash really means nothing to me - in case your interested in my perspective. However - I really felt like one of these jokers had an Ace - and the other one probably had a pair, so it was likely I only had my Jack live - to bust one or both of these players.

I seriously dislike getting dealt A/J off - a lot of times. :)
 
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fundiver199

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For me this is a fold. I am happy to get it in against the wild BTN jammer, but I am concerned about the range of an unknown player min-raising UTG out of a short stack near the bubble. I think, if he had a weak hand, his first choise would be to fold it, and his second choise would be to open jam for maximum fold equity. So I feel, there is a very high risk, he will snap us off with one of the hands, we dont want to see, like AQ/AK or 99+. You are for sure not printing EV by getting involved here, so I would rather preserve my stack and "look for a better spot", as the saying goes.
 
puzzlefish

puzzlefish

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AJo is crappy and you will be drawing. I don't think it is fatal for you to jam here, which might get a fold from the small stack who is now looking at two players who are all-in. Maybe not +EV in the long run, but I think you have enough of a read to justify giving it a shot here - and UTG may value min-cashing much more than you do.
 
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fundiver199

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AJo is crappy and you will be drawing. I don't think it is fatal for you to jam here, which might get a fold from the small stack who is now looking at two players who are all-in. Maybe not +EV in the long run, but I think you have enough of a read to justify giving it a shot here - and UTG may value min-cashing much more than you do.

It is a good point, that sometimes people will raise-fold in spots, where they should not be doing it. So there could be more fold equity here against UTG, than I pessimistically assumed. In an SnG I played this morning, someone min-raised from CO out of a 9 BB stack, and I jammed on him from SB with AJ expecting, that I would probably always get called, but that I would also have enough equity to justify it. However much to my surprice he folded. And it gets better than this, because he showed the table, that he folded TT, which was of course a fantastic outcome for me.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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AJo is crappy and you will be drawing. I don't think it is fatal for you to jam here, which might get a fold from the small stack who is now looking at two players who are all-in. Maybe not +EV in the long run, but I think you have enough of a read to justify giving it a shot here - and UTG may value min-cashing much more than you do.

Wow! Very interesting perspective Puzzlefish. Definitely one way of looking at this spot that I did not consider at all. Thanks for commenting.
Interestingly - I had a somewhat similar situation the day after I played this hand - except it was only one sub 10bb EP opener. I 3bet him with A/J suited essentially for 3/4 of his stack, and he tank folded. The difference in this second situation compared to the first was it was only one opener, and I had a confirmed read on the guy - he opens 2x light from EP pretending. And the tank fold pretty much double confirms. :)

This spot is kind of like 40/60 for me - and with 2 in the hand I decided to fold like a wimp. :smile:


It's a fold for me, you are still drawing at this point.

For me this is a fold. I am happy to get it in against the wild BTN jammer, but I am concerned about the range of an unknown player min-raising UTG out of a short stack near the bubble. I think, if he had a weak hand, his first choise would be to fold it, and his second choise would be to open jam for maximum fold equity. So I feel, there is a very high risk, he will snap us off with one of the hands, we dont want to see, like AQ/AK or 99+. You are for sure not printing EV by getting involved here, so I would rather preserve my stack and "look for a better spot", as the saying goes.

Thanks for your input gents. Yes - I choose the safe route and folded as you all suggested.

Original opener turns over A/9 suited.
Wild player turns over A/T off and wins the pot.

I would have flopped top 2 - and I think being results oriented caused me to keep this hand on my mind.

I ended up making 2 or 3 tight folds vs the wild player. And luckily I did to because he started getting cards. I folded 99s pre and he was jamming KKs into a LP open.
He shoved A/K and I diligently folded K/Q suited.

Then he gave me 85% of his chips when I 3bet him with JJs and he shoved A/J off. So I caught him in the end - but I could have taken him out a lot sooner - if I had made that loose call versus both those players. However - I think it's a good fold versus those two opponents at that time.
 
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