$1.65 NLHE MTT: AKs vs 88

[I Live Poker]

Wow, I was going to 4-bet preflop, but I thought villain would give up the hands I was winning, that's what happened..., I gave it...
the question is should i do a 4-b ? What size?


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 1,250/2,500 (325 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

gtobot17 (UTG): 49,601 (20 bb)
Neilbaff (UTG+1): 227,711 (91 bb)
AAROAA (MP): 111,504 (45 bb)
AkinKwasi (MP+1): 34,675 (14 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (CO): 321,599 (129 bb)
Sr Maximus (BU): 51,225 (20 bb)
Enano1704 (BB): 280,147 (112 bb)

Pre-Flop: (4,775) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is CO with A♦ K♦
4 players fold, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 5,500, 1 fold, Enano1704 (BB) 3-bets to 14,750, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 9,250

Flop: (31,775) A♥ 8♠ J♣ (2 players)
Enano1704 (BB) bets 11,079, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 28,877, Enano1704 (BB) raises to 59,300, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 30,423

Turn: (150,375) 4♦ (2 players)
Enano1704 (BB) bets 110,028, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 220,056, Enano1704 (BB) calls 95,744 (all-in)

River: (561,919) 6♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 561,919

Showdown:
1MilhaoSemNada (CO) shows A♦ K♦ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 48%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

Enano1704 (BB) shows 8♣ 8♦ (three of a kind, Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 52%, Flop: 96%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

Enano1704 (BB) wins 561,919



dude poker is sometimes cruel after suffering bad beats like this in the same tournament i got back up playing my best i led the tournament for about 3 hours but these horrible structures with 4 hours late damn it the problem is not losing a hand the problem is the hours spent for this...
hey WPN do more scrambles with short late registration and turbo on micros sucks when this happens a lot of regular tournaments on the micro grid.


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 300/600 (60 ante) - 5 players

Replay this hand on CardsChat

NOBRANDS (UTG): 10,040 (17 bb)
Kaguya Otsutsuki (MP): 31,136 (52 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (CO): 45,304 (76 bb)
OldCurtis (BU): 39,167 (65 bb)
AceJackFlush (BB): 25,988 (43 bb)

Pre-Flop: (900) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is CO with A♣ A♥
2 players fold, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 1,650, OldCurtis (BU) calls 1,650, 1 fold

Flop: (4,200) J♦ 5♠ T♥ (2 players)
1MilhaoSemNada (CO) bets 1,050, OldCurtis (BU) raises to 4,515, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 13,776, OldCurtis (BU) raises to 37,457 (all-in), 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 23,681

Turn: (79,114) K♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (79,114) 9♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 79,114

Showdown:
OldCurtis (BU) shows A♦ Q♣ (a straight, Ten to Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 7%, Flop: 18%, Turn: 97%, River: 100%)

1MilhaoSemNada (CO) shows A♣ A♥ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 93%, Flop: 82%, Turn: 3%, River: 0%)

OldCurtis (BU) wins 79,114

 

[eetenor]

Wow, I was going to 4-bet preflop, but I thought villain would give up the hands I was winning, that's what happened..., I gave it...
the question is should i do a 4-b ? What size?


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 1,250/2,500 (325 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

gtobot17 (UTG): 49,601 (20 bb)
Neilbaff (UTG+1): 227,711 (91 bb)
AAROAA (MP): 111,504 (45 bb)
AkinKwasi (MP+1): 34,675 (14 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (CO): 321,599 (129 bb)
Sr Maximus (BU): 51,225 (20 bb)
Enano1704 (BB): 280,147 (112 bb)

Pre-Flop: (4,775) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is CO with A♦ K♦
4 players fold, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 5,500, 1 fold, Enano1704 (BB) 3-bets to 14,750, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 9,250

Flop: (31,775) A♥ 8♠ J♣ (2 players)
Enano1704 (BB) bets 11,079, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 28,877, Enano1704 (BB) raises to 59,300, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 30,423

Turn: (150,375) 4♦ (2 players)
Enano1704 (BB) bets 110,028, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 220,056, Enano1704 (BB) calls 95,744 (all-in)

River: (561,919) 6♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 561,919

Showdown:
1MilhaoSemNada (CO) shows A♦ K♦ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 48%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

Enano1704 (BB) shows 8♣ 8♦ (three of a kind, Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 52%, Flop: 96%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

Enano1704 (BB) wins 561,919



dude poker is sometimes cruel after suffering bad beats like this in the same tournament i got back up playing my best i led the tournament for about 3 hours but these horrible structures with 4 hours late damn it the problem is not losing a hand the problem is the hours spent for this...
hey WPN do more scrambles with short late registration and turbo on micros sucks when this happens a lot of regular tournaments on the micro grid.


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 300/600 (60 ante) - 5 players

Replay this hand on CardsChat

NOBRANDS (UTG): 10,040 (17 bb)
Kaguya Otsutsuki (MP): 31,136 (52 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (CO): 45,304 (76 bb)
OldCurtis (BU): 39,167 (65 bb)
AceJackFlush (BB): 25,988 (43 bb)

Pre-Flop: (900) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is CO with A♣ A♥
2 players fold, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 1,650, OldCurtis (BU) calls 1,650, 1 fold

Flop: (4,200) J♦ 5♠ T♥ (2 players)
1MilhaoSemNada (CO) bets 1,050, OldCurtis (BU) raises to 4,515, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 13,776, OldCurtis (BU) raises to 37,457 (all-in), 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 23,681

Turn: (79,114) K♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (79,114) 9♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 79,114

Showdown:
OldCurtis (BU) shows A♦ Q♣ (a straight, Ten to Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 7%, Flop: 18%, Turn: 97%, River: 100%)

1MilhaoSemNada (CO) shows A♣ A♥ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 93%, Flop: 82%, Turn: 3%, River: 0%)

OldCurtis (BU) wins 79,114

Thank you for posting

First hand
Flatting is fine however we need to then range define on each street with each action.

You flatted pre hoping to trap AJ then you stacked off hoping the V did not have it. When we keep a range open preflop we cannot then act like V cannot have that range on the flop. You flatted because you thought V would fold weaker Ax hands pre but then you think the V min 3bets a range weaker than AK OOP on the flop? These actions force us to refine V range here. We must ask why the min click back? What range takes that action? What bluffs OOP?

When we call a 3 bet we have AX in our range so when we raise on the AJ8 flop why is our V wanting to get stacks in? There is no strong draw on that board so we cannot expect them to have a big draw and they do not expect us to have one either.

Post flop we always want to ask why does this V want to play for stacks and why do we with 1 pair?


Second hand
Again no really strong draw on this board KQ is the best draw yet the V wants to stack off why?
Our V can have all the sets and 2 pair on that board and draws and goofy hands as well.
Can they have KK QQ AJ and want to stack off if yes and seeing this hand yes might be true then call as you did. What frequency would they play that range?

Stack protection in tournaments where we have skill edge is an effective tool to go deeper in these tournaments. We can stack protect with one pair more often versus V who play straight forward poker.

Hope this helps

 

[I Live Poker]

Thank you for posting

First hand
Flatting is fine however we need to then range define on each street with each action.

You flatted pre hoping to trap AJ then you stacked off hoping the V did not have it. When we keep a range open preflop we cannot then act like V cannot have that range on the flop. You flatted because you thought V would fold weaker Ax hands pre but then you think the V min 3bets a range weaker than AK OOP on the flop? These actions force us to refine V range here. We must ask why the min click back? What range takes that action? What bluffs OOP?

When we call a 3 bet we have AX in our range so when we raise on the AJ8 flop why is our V wanting to get stacks in? There is no strong draw on that board so we cannot expect them to have a big draw and they do not expect us to have one either.

Post flop we always want to ask why does this V want to play for stacks and why do we with 1 pair?


Second hand
Again no really strong draw on this board KQ is the best draw yet the V wants to stack off why?
Our V can have all the sets and 2 pair on that board and draws and goofy hands as well.
Can they have KK QQ AJ and want to stack off if yes and seeing this hand yes might be true then call as you did. What frequency would they play that range?

Stack protection in tournaments where we have skill edge is an effective tool to go deeper in these tournaments. We can stack protect with one pair more often versus V who play straight forward poker.

Hope this helps

Thanks for your reply!
yes , i know there were a few combos i was winning but i focused on them and i got a bit obsessed with them like : KK QQ and especially AQ I was pretty sure about that but I messed up...

 

[I Live Poker]

Thank you for posting

First hand
Flatting is fine however we need to then range define on each street with each action.

You flatted pre hoping to trap AJ then you stacked off hoping the V did not have it. When we keep a range open preflop we cannot then act like V cannot have that range on the flop. You flatted because you thought V would fold weaker Ax hands pre but then you think the V min 3bets a range weaker than AK OOP on the flop? These actions force us to refine V range here. We must ask why the min click back? What range takes that action? What bluffs OOP?

When we call a 3 bet we have AX in our range so when we raise on the AJ8 flop why is our V wanting to get stacks in? There is no strong draw on that board so we cannot expect them to have a big draw and they do not expect us to have one either.

Post flop we always want to ask why does this V want to play for stacks and why do we with 1 pair?


Second hand
Again no really strong draw on this board KQ is the best draw yet the V wants to stack off why?
Our V can have all the sets and 2 pair on that board and draws and goofy hands as well.
Can they have KK QQ AJ and want to stack off if yes and seeing this hand yes might be true then call as you did. What frequency would they play that range?

Stack protection in tournaments where we have skill edge is an effective tool to go deeper in these tournaments. We can stack protect with one pair more often versus V who play straight forward poker.

Hope this helps

another question you mentioned is absolutely correct i didn't control the pot i played poorly.
A pity I played the tournament very well, if I managed to win it would be one of the best played victories. The moment I lost the tournament was horrible. I have to learn to dodge the set flop when I have value. Sometimes I escape but it's hard actually Aks seduced me, but you know the way I was playing and the way the villain was playing, it seemed appropriate but... it happens

 

[300HPGOD]

Hand 1: If we are not as deep (35 to maybe 40 BBs) I think getting it in by 4 bet there would be best but we are so deep that I like flatting pre flop and then playing in position with a hand that flops really well. I dont like raising on the flop because what hand do you expect to continue that you can value town? Yes AQ but all one pair hands there are probably going away so I think its better on fairly non scary board like that to call and let the villain value themselves of if they did get something as they did you lose a little less. Raising there will fold out a lot of QQ and possibly even Jx hands which we dont want to fold. When they re raise on the flop I would start to get alert and think something is wrong here. The sizing of the raise is way too small by them so they really porbably did not want me to fold to it. I would start thinking one pair could be beat here. I would not fold at that point but I would be weary.

Villains bets huge on the turn and then again you raise. Why raise here? You are ahead of them and can play accordingly on the river or you are crushed here. With the small raise on the flop and then a bet like this on the turn I would say more often than not you are behind.

Hand 2: Pre flop is fine. I dont go that small on the flop but I think you are trying to bait the villain by doing that and then you get the raise I suppose you were looking for. I would not love to be in your spot there but I would not be going anywhere with your hand. However, you raise there and I am puzzled by that? That raise should make worse hands fold and only better hands call. You got a way worse hand to call and like online poker does it times, it rewarded stupidity by villain. I still dont like raising that flop by you and would rather have them bluff it off instead of doing an action that most of the time will make worse hands fold. What turned out happening in the hand was bad play from villain and really bad luck for you.

 

[fundiver199]

Hand 1 AKs

Preflop
The first thing to consider is our opening size. You are more than 100BB effective with BTN, and when this deep we should use large open sizes like 3BB or maybe even more to give people a bad price to defend their blinds. SB is only 20BB deep, but with AKs we are not folding to a rejam from him. So unless we think, we need to be perfectly balanced with our bet sizes to not give away tells, we should go larger here, because its better against BB.

When we get 3-bet, the EV of 4-betting is surely higher than calling, and given the small sizing and deep stacks we can go around 3X with our 4-bet. Pretty much like we would with a 3-bet in position. However mixing in a call now and then is great for balance, especially against overly aggressive opponents. It gives us a very strong hand on A or K high boards, which they usually dont expect us to have, when we just call their 3-bet. So as a partial and as an exploit against overly agressive opponents this flat is fine, but our main play should be to 4-bet.

Flop
Great flop obviously, but before deciding, how we want to respond to his C-bet, we need to make a plan for the entire hand. And the first thing to notice is, that even though its a 3-bet pot, we are dealing with a very deep SPR of around 10. So this is a situation, where our default should be to not stack off with a single pair. We can look at the old Splitsuit guidelines here, which say 0-3 auto stack-off, 3-6 situational, more than 6 only in pristine spots.

And unless this opponent is a massive spewtard, this does not look like a great spot to stack off deep. Its very dry flop with no flushdraw, and the only strong straightdraw is T9, which he probably dont 3-bet pre. So if we start building a massive pot here, we probably only get it in against made hands, that beat us, which is obviously not something, we want. There is also few ways for him to draw out on us, if he is not ahead already, so for me the play here is 100% to just call and allow him to continue bluffing us on the turn or value own himself with a hand like AQ.

You do raise though, and now he 3-bet, and this is exactly why, I absolutely hate that raise. Because on such a dry board like this, what is he ever 3-betting with, that we are ahead off? This is pretty much always 2 pair or a set, or maybe occationally the same hand, if we are really lucky. We are getting a good price, so I guess, we have to call and see the turn, but I am pretty much hating the spot already.

Turn
Complete blank and now he bet half his remaining chips committing himself to the pot. It makes no sense calling again, so its either fold or jam, and for me this is 100% a fold for the reasons, I already stated. I think, we even have to discount another AK a lot now, so basically you are beat, and at best you have 3 outs to hit a K on the river for a better two pair than his.

Hand 2 AA

Preflop
Standard open and sizing looks fine this time.

Flop
Standard C-bet but I think, you can go a bit larger than just 25% pot. You are playing a very small buyin, you have a great hand, and you have fairly deep stacks. So I think, this really small sizing is leaving some money on the table.

Once again you get raised, and pretty much like in the other hand I think, this is just a call. Once again the SPR is around 10, so this is definitely not a default stack-off spot with a single pair, but we are obviously also not folding on the flop, since he could be raising worse for value, especially when your C-bet was so small.

Instead you 3-bet, and then you called off a 4-bet jam from him. And once again I think, this is an overplay, unless you had a read, he was a massive spewtard. Which given his hand, ok maybe he was, but you were both overplaying your hands, and then he just got lucky and got there.

Conclusion
I think, these two hands are interesting and represent a situation, where a lot of tournament players are massively leaking, which is playing with a deeper stack like 60-70BB or more. The deeper the effective stack, the more narrow we need to stack off, and here we see 3 examples of stacking off to wide, two from Hero and also one from the opponent in the AA hand.

 

[I Live Poker]

Hand 1: If we are not as deep (35 to maybe 40 BBs) I think getting it in by 4 bet there would be best but we are so deep that I like flatting pre flop and then playing in position with a hand that flops really well. I dont like raising on the flop because what hand do you expect to continue that you can value town? Yes AQ but all one pair hands there are probably going away so I think its better on fairly non scary board like that to call and let the villain value themselves of if they did get something as they did you lose a little less. Raising there will fold out a lot of QQ and possibly even Jx hands which we dont want to fold. When they re raise on the flop I would start to get alert and think something is wrong here. The sizing of the raise is way too small by them so they really porbably did not want me to fold to it. I would start thinking one pair could be beat here. I would not fold at that point but I would be weary.

Villains bets huge on the turn and then again you raise. Why raise here? You are ahead of them and can play accordingly on the river or you are crushed here. With the small raise on the flop and then a bet like this on the turn I would say more often than not you are behind.

Hand 2: Pre flop is fine. I dont go that small on the flop but I think you are trying to bait the villain by doing that and then you get the raise I suppose you were looking for. I would not love to be in your spot there but I would not be going anywhere with your hand. However, you raise there and I am puzzled by that? That raise should make worse hands fold and only better hands call. You got a way worse hand to call and like online poker does it times, it rewarded stupidity by villain. I still dont like raising that flop by you and would rather have them bluff it off instead of doing an action that most of the time will make worse hands fold. What turned out happening in the hand was bad play from villain and really bad luck for you.

yes my friend thank you very much! very good your analysis perfect man thank you!

 

[I Live Poker]

Hand 1 AKs

Preflop
The first thing to consider is our opening size. You are more than 100BB effective with BTN, and when this deep we should use large open sizes like 3BB or maybe even more to give people a bad price to defend their blinds. SB is only 20BB deep, but with AKs we are not folding to a rejam from him. So unless we think, we need to be perfectly balanced with our bet sizes to not give away tells, we should go larger here, because its better against BB.

When we get 3-bet, the EV of 4-betting is surely higher than calling, and given the small sizing and deep stacks we can go around 3X with our 4-bet. Pretty much like we would with a 3-bet in position. However mixing in a call now and then is great for balance, especially against overly aggressive opponents. It gives us a very strong hand on A or K high boards, which they usually dont expect us to have, when we just call their 3-bet. So as a partial and as an exploit against overly agressive opponents this flat is fine, but our main play should be to 4-bet.

Flop
Great flop obviously, but before deciding, how we want to respond to his C-bet, we need to make a plan for the entire hand. And the first thing to notice is, that even though its a 3-bet pot, we are dealing with a very deep SPR of around 10. So this is a situation, where our default should be to not stack off with a single pair. We can look at the old Splitsuit guidelines here, which say 0-3 auto stack-off, 3-6 situational, more than 6 only in pristine spots.

And unless this opponent is a massive spewtard, this does not look like a great spot to stack off deep. Its very dry flop with no flushdraw, and the only strong straightdraw is T9, which he probably dont 3-bet pre. So if we start building a massive pot here, we probably only get it in against made hands, that beat us, which is obviously not something, we want. There is also few ways for him to draw out on us, if he is not ahead already, so for me the play here is 100% to just call and allow him to continue bluffing us on the turn or value own himself with a hand like AQ.

You do raise though, and now he 3-bet, and this is exactly why, I absolutely hate that raise. Because on such a dry board like this, what is he ever 3-betting with, that we are ahead off? This is pretty much always 2 pair or a set, or maybe occationally the same hand, if we are really lucky. We are getting a good price, so I guess, we have to call and see the turn, but I am pretty much hating the spot already.

Turn
Complete blank and now he bet half his remaining chips committing himself to the pot. It makes no sense calling again, so its either fold or jam, and for me this is 100% a fold for the reasons, I already stated. I think, we even have to discount another AK a lot now, so basically you are beat, and at best you have 3 outs to hit a K on the river for a better two pair than his.

Hand 2 AA

Preflop
Standard open and sizing looks fine this time.

Flop
Standard C-bet but I think, you can go a bit larger than just 25% pot. You are playing a very small buyin, you have a great hand, and you have fairly deep stacks. So I think, this really small sizing is leaving some money on the table.

Once again you get raised, and pretty much like in the other hand I think, this is just a call. Once again the SPR is around 10, so this is definitely not a default stack-off spot with a single pair, but we are obviously also not folding on the flop, since he could be raising worse for value, especially when your C-bet was so small.

Instead you 3-bet, and then you called off a 4-bet jam from him. And once again I think, this is an overplay, unless you had a read, he was a massive spewtard. Which given his hand, ok maybe he was, but you were both overplaying your hands, and then he just got lucky and got there.

Conclusion
I think, these two hands are interesting and represent a situation, where a lot of tournament players are massively leaking, which is playing with a deeper stack like 60-70BB or more. The deeper the effective stack, the more narrow we need to stack off, and here we see 3 examples of stacking off to wide, two from Hero and also one from the opponent in the AA hand.

Thanks for the reply my dear!
Yes I fully agree you know a little bit of my game, I would normally make a 4-B in this case I regret not having done it. Villain looked like an aggressive reg to me however he made that small 3-B , in fact we both played out of line in this spot.
In both cases spew villains but in the first hand a more controlled spew I call it an agro reg which balances well but it is spew and in the second case it is a spew fish.
Yes my dear, I fully agree thank you for the tips!Oh my dear, I'm glad you guys are my friends. you guys are poker monsters man!