$1.50 NLHE STT: $ : What's your pre play here?

[BlueNowhere]

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.5 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds 2 Ante (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) (t498)
Button (t478)
SB (t530)
BB (t498)
UTG (t498)
MP (t498)

Hero's M: 11.86

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7

, 7

UTG calls t20, 1 fold, Hero???

I feel to deep to jam. I'm going to really struggle post-flop if I raise. Folding seems abit nitty (although possibly best because if shoving is going to be marginal then I can pass on that and exert my edge elsewhere). Input appreciated.

 

[baudib1]

Any reads on the players behind you? I feel like limping here is going to be best as you will get to the flop 5-handed quite often if they are loose-passive behind you, so we'll probably get someone's stack when we hit. Also, UTG has the nuts a significant portion of the time.

 

[BlueNowhere]

Any reads on the players behind you? I feel like limping here is going to be best as you will get to the flop 5-handed quite often if they are loose-passive behind you, so we'll probably get someone's stack when we hit. Also, UTG has the nuts a significant portion of the time.

No reads other than UTG is a fish.

How do you feel about limp-shoving if somebody raise to t60 behind? In most games I'd hate it but with how these play (basically full of fish) I think it has some merit when someone raises to a stupid size behind. Also when someone does that it means I get to find out if UTG is going to limp/raise (or just limp/call). Also you're overestimating UTGs range, it's only a $1.50 game and he most likely just wants to see a flop.

 

[baudib1]

I don't hate limp-shoving because if UTG calls the pot will be pretty juicy.

 

[WiZZiM]

i'm not a huge fan of limp shoving when someone raises from the blinds tbh. The play has merit on say a 9 handed table your in early/mid position and someone in later position raises.

Having said that, it's a $1 game and a hyper, theres most likely enough idiots to warrant limp/shoving. So calling is probably best. You can pretty easily play a pot here in position, if limp/shoving wasn't an option, then we're only left with folding or shoving.

Also, with the ante and extra dead money in the pot from the limp, this is a lot closer to a shove than you might think.

 

[WiZZiM]

Oh, but we're not really setmining here either, we're going to have to take some pots away postflop and do some stuff to make this profitable i would think.

 

[BlueNowhere]

We rarely take the pot away post-flop if we just limp in. We're probably going to have at least 4 to the flop and people at these BIs won't fold when they hit. I don't think we can win post-flop unless we flop a set of board comes 623 or something. I just folded pre in the end.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Man, what am I missing here???

You have 77 in the cutoff, someone limped in and you folded????

I am definitely raising to like 80 but will fold to any 3-bet.

I am definitely missing something - clue card please.

 

[BlueNowhere]

r/f to 80 is going to be -ev imo.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

r/f to 80 is going to be -ev imo.

On a table of 6??? I mean you know more what's going on with these guys coming after you but really? Is this a huge leak for me? I'm really liking 77 here and think I have to make some move - even limping over folding.

Now on the other hand I am sure not going to stack off either - so shoving is not an option. Are you in shove or fold zone and I'm missing it? What are we afraid of here?

 

[JusSumguy]

Man, what am I missing here???
You have 77 in the cutoff, someone limped in and you folded????
I am definitely raising to like 80 but will fold to any 3-bet.

Same here... Mainly because I want that button with 77.

-

 

[BlueNowhere]

On a table of 6??? I mean you know more what's going on with these guys coming after you but really? Is this a huge leak for me? I'm really liking 77 here and think I have to make some move - even limping over folding.

Now on the other hand I am sure not going to stack off either - so shoving is not an option. Are you in shove or fold zone and I'm missing it? What are we afraid of here?

I don't think raising is a huge mistake but I highly doubt it's optimal. I really don't want to raise/fold for 16% of my stack. Then on most flops I'm not going to pick up equity and i think we get at least 3 to the flop which means I'm going to c/f alot. When I do hit a set they are less likely to hit a hand because they don't have many combos of 7x and that leaves two cards that they have to have which means i don't get paid off for my set. If I was 100bb deep and playing cash then I bet this all day long. I just don't think it's correct with this blind structure.

I prefer limping in to raising and if someone raises to t60 I can jam it with so much dead money in the pot and nobody having a particularly strong hand. I folded because I think this is a spot where I'm going to struggle to make raising/limping +ev so I accepted a 0ev move instead.

 

[BlueNowhere]

Ok so pretty much same spot again tonight. I went for the limp/shove this time. Seems to be fairly common somebody does some stupid shit like min raise from blinds.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.5 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds 2 Ante (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t500)
SB (t500)
BB (t500)
UTG (t500)
MP (t500)
Hero (CO) (t500)

Hero's M: 11.90

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5

, 5

UTG calls t20, MP calls t20, Hero calls t20, 2 folds, BB bets t40, UTG calls t20, MP calls t20, Hero raises to t498 (All-In), 2 folds, MP calls t458 (All-In)

Flop: (t1098) 8

, 4

, 3

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t1098) A

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t1098) A

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t1098

Results:

Spoiler

MP had K

, 8

(two pair, Aces and eights).
Hero had 5

, 5

(two pair, Aces and fives).
Outcome: MP won t1098

 

[MediaBLITZ]

referring to my to my first post I am definitely raising to like 80 but will fold to any 3-bet.

Ok so pretty much same spot again tonight. I went for the limp/shove this time. Seems to be fairly common somebody does some stupid shit like min raise from blinds.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.5 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds 2 Ante (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t500)
SB (t500)
BB (t500)
UTG (t500)
MP (t500)
Hero (CO) (t500)

Hero's M: 11.90

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5

, 5

UTG calls t20, MP calls t20, Hero calls t20, 2 folds, BB bets t40, UTG calls t20, MP calls t20, Hero raises to t498 (All-In), 2 folds, MP calls t458 (All-In)

Flop: (t1098) 8

, 4

, 3

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t1098) A

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t1098) A

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t1098

Results:

Spoiler

MP had K

, 8

(two pair, Aces and eights).
Hero had 5

, 5

(two pair, Aces and fives).
Outcome: MP won t1098

 

[BlueNowhere]

With 55 you're willing to raise to t80? I honestly think that is bad with two limpers already in the pot and 25bb effective stacks. I could be completely off here but I just don't think raising is good.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

With 55 you're willing to raise to t80? I honestly think that is bad with two limpers already in the pot and 25bb effective stacks. I could be completely off here but I just don't think raising is good.

Sorry, my emphasis was more on folding to any 3bet - but yeah, 6 handed I might go ahead and raise. Depends on my reads - but probably folding to a 3 bet. Really hard for me to draw a line in a 6 handed tourney that I have never played. Relying more on 6 max ring for what I would do (so your explanations are appreciated).

What I don't understand is you fold 77 and shove 55. Was that about this particular table, your reads? Or was it the math (my weakness)? Or combined?

 

[BlueNowhere]

Sorry, my emphasis was more on folding to any 3bet - but yeah, 6 handed I might go ahead and raise. Depends on my reads - but probably folding to a 3 bet. Really hard for me to draw a line in a 6 handed tourney that I have never played. Relying more on 6 max ring for what I would do (so your explanations are appreciated).

What I don't understand is you fold 77 and shove 55. Was that about this particular table, your reads? Or was it the math (my weakness)? Or combined?

In 6-max ring I fully agree with what your saying. For this I just think r/f is going to hurt us. It's going to put a dint in our stack and then when we do have to play post-flop we're going to be up against 2+ players (people have a need to see flops) and we need a 5 post-flop to make money.

The reason I played this hand like this is because I had this thread in mind and I thought limping didn't seem too bad and see what happened behind. If we get 4 or 5 to flop then we probably do have odds to set-mine. If we see any raise we just make up our minds between shoving and folding. With 162 in pot and nobody really showing strength a shove just felt best. The fact that UTG turns up with K8o tells you how much respect my raise would get (which is my main reason for not liking a raise). So no, this was not based on reads but just experimenting.

Also with the maths. I have no idea what range people are going to call with. If we say we win the pot pre 50% of the time then we gain 81 chips then when we're called we only need 36.16% equity against the calling range. I think we easy have that tbh.

 

[WiZZiM]

Media, you are blissfully ignoring the fact that we are not 100 bb's deep. We are at an akward stack size right from the beginning. If we raise here with 7's we usually get called. The SPR on the flop is going to be really high then, and we usually are just either bluffing on the flop, or folding somehow. People are nuts in these games, and will do anything to bust themselves out of the tournament early. I have a bunch of other reasons why raising isn't a good idea, but i have no time.

Anyways, i think limping both is fine, shoving both is fine, folding is probably a little bit tight.