$1.50 NLHE STT: What would you do here?

[LuisBoaC]

Villain doubled-up early in tourney and has since continued to build his stack with loose aggressive play. I have been playing fairly tight.


pokerstars, $1.29 + $0.21 - Hold'em No Limit - 40/80 (10 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: 4,302 (54 bb)
MP: 974 (12 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 3,498 (44 bb)
CO: 1,633 (20 bb)
BU: 769 (10 bb)
SB: 1,386 (17 bb)
BB: 938 (12 bb)

Pre-Flop: (190) Hero is MP+1 with 8♦ 8♣
UTG raises to 200, 1 fold, Hero calls 200, 4 players fold

Flop: (590) A♥ 2♥ 8♠ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 320, UTG calls 320

Turn: (1,230) 4♠ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 820, UTG calls 820

River: (2,870) J♠ (2 players)
UTG bets 1,435, Hero calls 1,435

 

[FernandPoker]

First of all, I'm a beginner, so don't think all I say is right.

All in all, I would have done the same and I think you played it well. Call pre-flop is fine, would a 3-bet have been possible too, knowing he's pretty loose ?
Post-flop, betting is a must, sizing is ok I guess with these two hearts.
Turn, another spade, should two-barrel here, 2/3 pot. I would have gone for a bigger bet, especially against this player.
River, crap, bad card, vilain bets 1/2 pot. What does he represent, what bluffs does he have ? Honestly, after a check-check-bet, he does represent a flush-draw. What could he bluff with ? I think a call is good here, and I hope to see him on a missed-heart flush, even thought I wouldn't understand the call on the turn. AXo, with the A of spades, is also in his range, and that could be a one of his bluffs.
If you're unlucky, you'll maybe be facing an AsXs ? Difficult hand, I would've called I think. I still have a feeling that you're behind, but I would love to hear other people's thoughts.
Thanks for posting too.

 

[FernandPoker]

Forget my first comment, sorry.

*First of all, I'm a beginner, so don't think all I say is right.

All in all, I would have done the same and I think you played it well. Call pre-flop is fine, not necessary to make the pot even bigger.
Post-flop, betting is a must, sizing is ok I guess with these two hearts.
Turn, another spade, should two-barrel here, 2/3 pot. I would have gone for a bigger bet, especially against this player.
River, crap, bad card, vilain bets 1/2 pot. What does he represent, what bluffs does he have ? Honestly, after a check-check-bet, he does represent a flush draw, but what flush draw ?. His range isn't that wide anyway, EP raise still represents a pretty strong hand. What hand could he check/call twice with, and bet with on the river when there's a spade draw ?
I really don't understand vilain's moves here. Would he have check/called the flop with two spades ? I think he's got no hands in his range with two spades. Maybe with a 2 of spades ? But with a raise from UTG, he could only have A2, and he would have definitely bet on the flop. With just two random spades, maybe SC, he just wouldn't have called the flop I think.
I honestly see him bluffing here. If it isn't the case, that would just be an unlucky setup, in which you couldn't have done anything.

I would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Thanks for posting !

 

[greatgame230]

Villain doubled-up early in tourney and has since continued to build his stack with loose aggressive play. I have been playing fairly tight.


PokerStars, $1.29 + $0.21 - Hold'em No Limit - 40/80 (10 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: 4,302 (54 bb)
MP: 974 (12 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 3,498 (44 bb)
CO: 1,633 (20 bb)
BU: 769 (10 bb)
SB: 1,386 (17 bb)
BB: 938 (12 bb)

Pre-Flop: (190) Hero is MP+1 with 8♦ 8♣
UTG raises to 200, 1 fold, Hero calls 200, 4 players fold

Flop: (590) A♥ 2♥ 8♠ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 320, UTG calls 320

Turn: (1,230) 4♠ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 820, UTG calls 820

River: (2,870) J♠ (2 players)
UTG bets 1,435, Hero calls 1,435

Hi, first I want to say that the hand was well played, the post-flop UTG check disconcerts me a bit since I would have expected a C-Bet from him, then everything is correct, because with that post-flop check the range that he has is reduced to (Ax or AA - KK- QQ-JJ) so that's why I can not tell you that you should raise on the river, I hope that with that set of 8 you were the winner of the hand however I hope you publish the result to see if my reading of this hand is correct.

Greetings

 

[BesseNuts]

I guess you did it right! Good sizes! I would expect Ax from villain!

 

[puzzlefish]

I think the check on the flop from the villain typically signifies a pocket pair that's <AA or he missed with a connector. Hopefully it wasn't suited spades, but otherwise I think you bet pretty well to extract value for your set.

 

[FernandPoker]

I guess you did it right! Good sizes! I would expect Ax from villain!

Ax of what ? I mean, here it really makes a difference if he has the A of spades or not, and if he's got two spades of course, but with Ax I don't see him checking that flop ! Why would you want your opponent to see a free card, maybe even a heart which could destroy your hand. If vilain had that Ace, wouldn't he have C-bet there ?!

 

[puzzlefish]

That's weird.. my post got cut off after the first line? I meant to say a pocket pair <AA or a connector, and otherwise good betting to extract value from the set .. bad beat if villain had spades.

 

[FernandPoker]

I think the check on the flop from the villain typically signifies a pocket pair that's <AA or he missed with a connector. Hopefully it wasn't suited spades, but otherwise I think you bet pretty well to extract value for your set.

Why would he call on such a board with suited spades on the flop ? That's just a check/fold, isn't it, unless he's got like big cards, maybe KsQs, ... ? And if he had hit hard on the flop, with like an A of spades, wouldn't he have bet that flop ?!

 

[puzzlefish]

Why would he call on such a board with suited spades on the flop ? That's just a check/fold, isn't it, unless he's got like big cards, maybe KsQs, ... ? And if he had hit hard on the flop, with like an A of spades, wouldn't he have bet that flop ?!

You're right. He should not call with spades, although the Cbet size was small enough that more fishy players would continuem Some players do take unorthodox lines.

 

[quant1986]

I think it is fine, you cannot get away if villain has AA/JJ

 

[Mr_Nuisance]

Without knowing the outcome of the hand, it definitely strikes me as all the signs of a draw hand, whether that be missing the heart draw or hitting the backdoor spades draw. His lack of aggressiveness on the flop and turn makes me believe he could have had a marginal pocket pair or a suited hand such as QJ or maybe KQ, but I definitely feel that KQ would have absolutely led out on the flop, and any Ax hands would have led out on the flop or might have delayed cbet on turn. I don't believe an Ax hand would check again on the turn and possibly miss out on value from drawing hands. You absolutely were not giving him good pot odds to try to chase that backdoor spade draw, so the only hands I believe would be in this situation are hands like possible slowplayed Ax hands, slowplayed AA or JJ, or a missed heart draw. The Ax hands seem the least likely because in that position I would be worried for the hero to be on a draw as well, so I would absolutely bet the flop.

 

[playinggameswithu]

When they bet out of turn they have it 95%+ of the time. What they are saying is "I am worried you won't bet river for obvious reasons.I have a damn hand and this isn't a bluff like 0% of the time." Since bet is too big for the game I would fold. If I am on tilt I would snap tilt call and if it cripples us with a runner runner spades so be it. I am folding though as played. I would shove turn the pot is OK enough to shut down (I would never ever do that in cash.), I do not know what to do if flushes get there on river, we have plenty of callability from failed looking c bet villian having Ax. If villian has a higher set well....its just a cooler that is why we BRM. Sets literally have minimal reverse implied odds and maximum implied odds.

 

[FernandPoker]

Without knowing the outcome of the hand, it definitely strikes me as all the signs of a draw hand, whether that be missing the heart draw or hitting the backdoor spades draw. His lack of aggressiveness on the flop and turn makes me believe he could have had a marginal pocket pair or a suited hand such as QJ or maybe KQ, but I definitely feel that KQ would have absolutely led out on the flop, and any Ax hands would have led out on the flop or might have delayed cbet on turn. I don't believe an Ax hand would check again on the turn and possibly miss out on value from drawing hands. You absolutely were not giving him good pot odds to try to chase that backdoor spade draw, so the only hands I believe would be in this situation are hands like possible slowplayed Ax hands, slowplayed AA or JJ, or a missed heart draw. The Ax hands seem the least likely because in that position I would be
worried for the hero to be on a draw as well, so I would absolutely bet the flop.

Great answer, I'm thinking about it the same way you do.

 

[oreleo]

I would have made here check raise in the flop. As and flash drew would pay.

 

[LuisBoaC]

Thanks to all of you. As it goes I was happy with how I played this, I really wanted to know if anyone could/would fold this river, probably because I was smarting from losing such a big pot after villain showed his A6 of Spades.

 

[Jon Poker]

Thanks to all of you. As it goes I was happy with how I played this, I really wanted to know if anyone could/would fold this river, probably because I was smarting from losing such a big pot after villain showed his A6 of Spades.

Thats the main thing, just be happy with your play. It was absolutely correct - if he has AA and plays it that way, well, thats just unfortunate for you. Same with the flush - if he hit runner runner with Ax of spades (and he did) then good for him...the other huge percentage of the time you will win this hand.

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

Flop you must play check-back. After check-back flop, on the turn you must raise or bet. If you raise, river check-back/fold. If you bet, river check-back/call.
In your spot on the river - easy all-in

 

[tmfnsanders]

I think you played this very well. Your sizing looks perfect to me. Crazy he had spades, I would have put him on a flopped set of aces and scared to bet it or a rivered set of jacks before I put him on the flush.

I don't think there's any way to get away from it, and you didn't lose your entire stack- so take those few chips you have left and make a comeback

 

[satirist]

Tough luck!

What a hand, *exasperated gasp*. ... I wonder whether the only thing that may have been able to persuade Villain to lay off would have been a lot more early aggression? Which seems like a bit much, but may have been the only play to really make Villain choose a different spot.

I think your game play was justifiably quite fair. Just a tough break in general.


Kind of makes me speculate that it's hands like these that make me take longer and longer breaks from the game