$1.50 NLHE STT: Up and down straight draw (odds question)

playtheman

playtheman

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Ive been learning more about odds and outs.

I was playing hand in the bb with 76h
pot was limped around to me so I check to the flop, Pot is 1k

Kc 4s 5c

I check. one before the button bets half pot, pot is now 1.5k
Just me and villain in the hand

So its 500 to win 1500

1500:500 = 3:1 pot odds

so I need a 3 or and 8, 4 of each =8x4 (rule of 4) is 32%
BUT the flush draw is out so do I minus the 3c and 8c ?

I folded the hand, I didnt have enough time to work out the right play as ive only just started learning how to use outs in relation to pot odds.

Ps won the first hand of the game with 97 of diamonds vs a slow playing AJ of clubs, had a flush and straight draw and they were betting super light until they shoved the river which I had the nuts at.
 
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WiZZiM

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a quick google search will give you all the info about pot odds and also implied pot odds you will ever need to know.
 
playtheman

playtheman

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a quick google search will give you all the info about pot odds and also implied pot odds you will ever need to know.

I hate these kinds of replies.
 
jordanbillie

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Ive been learning more about odds and outs.

I was playing hand in the bb with 76h
pot was limped around to me so I check to the flop, Pot is 1k

Kc 4s 5c

I check. one before the button bets half pot, pot is now 1.5k
Just me and villain in the hand

So its 500 to win 1500

1500:500 = 3:1 pot odds

so I need a 3 or and 8, 4 of each =8x4 (rule of 4) is 32%
BUT the flush draw is out so do I minus the 3c and 8c ?

I folded the hand, I didnt have enough time to work out the right play as ive only just started learning how to use outs in relation to pot odds.

Ps won the first hand of the game with 97 of diamonds vs a slow playing AJ of clubs, had a flush and straight draw and they were betting super light until they shoved the river which I had the nuts at.

You need to take a minute to determine your opponents range. If you feel like he can have a lot of FDs here than the fold isn't the worst play. I sometimes like leading in this spot or even a c/r if it was raised pre and villain has a high cbet %. I dunno, check/fold here is pretty weak.
 
playtheman

playtheman

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You need to take a minute to determine your opponents range. If you feel like he can have a lot of FDs here than the fold isn't the worst play. I sometimes like leading in this spot or even a c/r if it was raised pre and villain has a high cbet %. I dunno, check/fold here is pretty weak.

So I should bet out on all draws like this?
 
jordanbillie

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So I should bet out on all draws like this?

To answer your question simply: No.

I don't believe in any formulaic style and I use so many different variables to make my decision that I can't say, "You should lead all OESD's in a limped pot pre." Now in your scenario, I know nothing about stack sizes or any reads on opponents, so it is very hard to say what is the optimal play here. All I know is that a c/f on this flop is weak, and is probably the worst play.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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Ive been learning more about odds and outs.

I was playing hand in the bb with 76h
pot was limped around to me so I check to the flop, Pot is 1k

Kc 4s 5c

I check. one before the button bets half pot, pot is now 1.5k
Just me and villain in the hand

So its 500 to win 1500

1500:500 = 3:1 pot odds

so I need a 3 or and 8, 4 of each =8x4 (rule of 4) is 32%
BUT the flush draw is out so do I minus the 3c and 8c ?
You may want to look into the concept of partial outs, which involves assigning less than full value to cards that will improve your hand but to somewhere less than the nuts. In this hand, for example, the 3c and 8c have some value as outs because they will sometimes be enough to win the hand, but not always. So, instead of counting them as 2 outs, you may want to assign them a lesser value. What value to use is a judgment call based on the specific situation and opponents. And btw, it doesn't have to be an integer.
 
konatus

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If the hand goes all in on the flop you have two cards to come, so you have 6 * 4 = 25%

If you do a call to see the turn, you have one card to come, so you have 6 * 2 = 12%

The pot odds are 3:1 = 25%

Since the odds are 12% and the pot odds is 25% I prefer to fold here.

But you can play the draws agressively with a bet instead of a check on the flop. Disguise you hand sometimes. If you bet you are showing that you don't have the striaght draw.

You must subtract the 3c and 8c in general.
 
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