$1.50 NLHE STT: "Three ways to play Jacks"

[LuisBoaC]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 52/18/3.3

I once read that "There are three ways to play Jacks and they're all wrong."
So how would you have played these ones? Villain has been limping into most pots but been more selective of the ones he continues with post-flop, winning some pots with good cards at showdown in the process.


pokerstars, $1.29 + $0.21 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (15 ante) - 4 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

zzhekaber (UTG): 6,443 (54 bb)
luisboac (BU): 2,497 (21 bb)
Ragnar_xxcz (SB): 2,166 (18 bb)
shoopstar (BB): 2,394 (20 bb)

Pre-Flop: (240) Hero (luisboac) is BTN with J♥ J♦
zzhekaber (UTG) raises to 240, luisboac (BU) calls 240, 1 fold, shoopstar (BB) calls 120

Flop: (840) 8♦ 8♥ 6♥ (3 players)
shoopstar (BB) bets 840, zzhekaber (UTG) folds, luisboac (BU) folds

 

[MemphisGrind]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 52/18/3.3

I once read that "There are three ways to play Jacks and they're all wrong."
So how would you have played these ones? Villain has been limping into most pots but been more selective of the ones he continues with post-flop, winning some pots with good cards at showdown in the process.


PokerStars, $1.29 + $0.21 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (15 ante) - 4 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

zzhekaber (UTG): 6,443 (54 bb)
luisboac (BU): 2,497 (21 bb)
Ragnar_xxcz (SB): 2,166 (18 bb)
shoopstar (BB): 2,394 (20 bb)

Pre-Flop: (240) Hero (luisboac) is BTN with J♥ J♦
zzhekaber (UTG) raises to 240, luisboac (BU) calls 240, 1 fold, shoopstar (BB) calls 120

Flop: (840) 8♦ 8♥ 6♥ (3 players)
shoopstar (BB) bets 840, zzhekaber (UTG) folds, luisboac (BU) folds

I would have 3 bet. I understand why you flat with villain opening UTG, however villain has been playing most pots, so I feel we need to 3 bet to narrow range. You can 3 bet to 500 and still have 14bb behind if you get 4 bet and have to fold. If they flat your 3 bet and this is the flop (the one that happened) if villain donk bets. I shove, if villain shoves I call.

 

[Gohaku94]

With 21bb and JJ with an open before you this should be an easy shove everytime. JJ is way too strong call fold or something else like that when you have 20bb

 

[Mepper95]

Considering you don't have the stack depth to 3bet I would jam here. Too strong of a holding to flat in position, unless you know SB/BB are aggro and will likely squeeze. Still I would prefer a jam here.

 

[xbursonicx]

JJ is a pretty good hand in a full ring, and considering you were 4-handed it was even better. So flatting doesn't seem good, you should've 3-bet or gone all-in.

Also I'm not sure why you folded to the bet on the flop - your hand could still be the best, and also you had backdoor flush draw. So I would rather gone all-in and hoped for the best.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I think this is a pretty standard 3b shove

 

[Bozovicdj]

With 21bb and JJ with an open before you this should be an easy shove everytime. JJ is way too strong call fold or something else like that when you have 20bb

When you look at the stacks and the fact this is a STT, this makes it a 9max SnG on PS. Three people to the money, and considering everyone is close to 20BB, not including the chip leader, shoving to flip against an AQ, and lose would be heartbreaking. Also, the fact that the stack is 20BB big is not a factor, considering everyone is close in chips, while the bubble is in play.

Regardless, shoving with JJ would not be bad, but I don't think it is the optimum play, while calling is. The flop is also quite good for JJ, because, the BB can make a move here with pocket 4s or A6, while he should never do it with an 8.

IMO, JJ is a clear shove there against the BB, and if villain does show an 8, just make a note on him that he does weird plays with nuts, and it will pay off in the next SnG.

 

[Gohaku94]

When you look at the stacks and the fact this is a STT, this makes it a 9max SnG on PS. Three people to the money, and considering everyone is close to 20BB, not including the chip leader, shoving to flip against an AQ, and lose would be heartbreaking. Also, the fact that the stack is 20BB big is not a factor, considering everyone is close in chips, while the bubble is in play.

Regardless, shoving with JJ would not be bad, but I don't think it is the optimum play, while calling is. The flop is also quite good for JJ, because, the BB can make a move here with pocket 4s or A6, while he should never do it with an 8.

IMO, JJ is a clear shove there against the BB, and if villain does show an 8, just make a note on him that he does weird plays with nuts, and it will pay off in the next SnG.

I mean.. it's not like everytime you call Js pre will come that flop. Of everytime you have Js 886 will come calling JJ pre is 100% the best thing to do but on 50% of flops at least one higher card will be on the flop which could scare you but also your oponnent with <TT

 

[liuouhgkres]

Preflop allin. As played flop allin.

 

[Bozovicdj]

I mean.. it's not like everytime you call Js pre will come that flop. Of everytime you have Js 886 will come calling JJ pre is 100% the best thing to do but on 50% of flops at least one higher card will be on the flop which could scare you but also your oponnent with <TT

Well if you are looking at it from the percentage point of view, we have only 12 cards in the deck that scare us. That being said, at least one of those has to be in V's hand so it really makes it 11 or even 10. So basically 10/50 means 20% of the time we will have a scary flop, that might kill the action.

However, my thought process here, and it is based on experience in playing these SnGs, is that the entire range of the Villain here is extremely wide, and will c-bet on almost any flop. That being said, when we shove pre flop, a huge part of V's range folds instantly, and never ever calls. IMO, to extract most value in the long run, call pre, then re-raise 80% of the flops.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Well if you are looking at it from the percentage point of view, we have only 12 cards in the deck that scare us. That being said, at least one of those has to be in V's hand so it really makes it 11 or even 10. So basically 10/50 means 20% of the time we will have a scary flop, that might kill the action.

However, my thought process here, and it is based on experience in playing these SnGs, is that the entire range of the Villain here is extremely wide, and will c-bet on almost any flop. That being said, when we shove pre flop, a huge part of V's range folds instantly, and never ever calls. IMO, to extract most value in the long run, call pre, then re-raise 80% of the flops.

This is too simplified. Because the flop has 3 cards. I can’t remember the math but I learned how to calculate this and the formula is called “m choose n”

In this case it might be 10 choose 3? Or 3 choose 10?

Either way to take the probability of a single overcard (10/50) and it increases with each additional card.

It’s not quite 3x but it’s a lot more than 20%

 

[TenJack]

I think that we also need to consider hero's tendencies as well... If we are going to fold JJ on a 886 board then we are going to need to jam this pre. Because if we fold all flops but Jxx then we are lighting money on fire.

The way this is played suggests that hero is *slightly* nitty. I don't like to say this but... its a leak (that is easily fixed by some good material) that is going to cost you lots. I would be curious to know why we folded this hand??

 

[Bozovicdj]

This is too simplified. Because the flop has 3 cards. I can’t remember the math but I learned how to calculate this and the formula is called “m choose n”

In this case it might be 10 choose 3? Or 3 choose 10?

Either way to take the probability of a single overcard (10/50) and it increases with each additional card.

It’s not quite 3x but it’s a lot more than 20%

You are completely right. I completely screwed up that math.
For JJ, our concerne is seeing Q, K and A. Thats 12 cards total.
odds of a flop with one of those are 12/52 + 12/51 + 12/50 which is around 0.6 or 60%
It so happened its 3x bigger then my original 20, but if we hold QQ, odds of seeing K or A are about 40-45% I think.

Just to point out, seeing an over card 60% of the time doesn't mean we are losing the hand 60% of the time, because it doesnt mean that villain has connected with the board.

In any case, ty Jacki for pointing that out

 

[eduardobrito]

hello community

Poker losses and life obstacles are the opportunity to see how you handle adversity. How do you respond when shit doesn’t go your way? Do you focus on what you can control? Or do you blame…

 

[MattRyder]

I'm assuming you are referring to the player UTG as villain? If so you said that he has been "limping" into most pots, but this time he raised - yes? Does that likely mean that he's holding a slightly better hand than usual, say AX?

Nobody has mentioned the fact that villain changed places on the flop. The new villain (BB) got into the hand for cheap which apparently agreed with his hole cards. My goal pre-flop would be to get BB out of the hand, either by shoving or 3-betting.

3-betting (to 6 or 7 BB) is probably best since if UTG is holding better than his usual two cards he's likely going to call no matter what you do, and he's likely going to have missed that low flop entirely, AND you have position. If the flop does come up AKx AQx ATx, you have the option of folding with a 14 - 15 BB stack remaining.

 

[UkoChebuko]

This is the bubble, right? Shove with TT+, AKo, AKs. Call with ATs+, AQo, KQs, 99. Call vs shove.

 

[iSaladir]

3-bet it preflop.
Maybe i would've raised him cause we got Overpair :/

 

[Ryan Laplante]

I think this is a pretty standard 3b shove

Agreed.