$1.50 NLHE MTT: Stop and go. Used correctly?

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BlueNowhere

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Not really used this much in the past so just wondering if I found a good time to do it?

Over 50 hands villian is running at like 20/16. 3rd time he has raised my BB from CO to 375, 1st time I've called. Don't often do Stop and go as I hate donk betting. Blinds were going up in 1 min and I'm 10th out of 12, figured I was just about shallow stacked enough to pull off this move. He hasn't seen me defend my blinds too heavily so no reason to think I'm getting out of line with this call. Also am I shoving any flop here? I was pretty unsure if I really wanted to commit if an ace came as that makes up a decent part of his range.

PokerStars - $1.29+$0.21|75/150 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Academ1k (SB): 3,860.00
BlueNowhere4 (BB): 2,145.00
saprobiont (UTG): 2,935.00
cereso65 (MP): 4,615.00
NParasite (CO): 2,235.00
YURAN-DC (BTN): 2,960.00

Academ1k posts SB 75.00, BlueNowhere4 posts BB 150.00

Pre Flop: (225.00) BlueNowhere4 has J:club: K:club:

fold, fold, NParasite raises to 375.00, fold, fold, BlueNowhere4 calls 225.00

Flop: (825.00, 2 players) 2:heart: 9:diamond: J:heart:
BlueNowhere4 bets 1,770.00 and is all-in, NParasite calls 1,770.00

Turn: (4365.00, 2 players) 9:heart:

River: (4365.00, 2 players) T:heart:

BlueNowhere4 shows J:club: K:club: (Two Pair, Jacks and Nines) (PreFlop 46%, Flop 88%, Turn 95%)
NParasite shows T:club: T:spade: (Full House, Tens full of Nines) (PreFlop 54%, Flop 12%, Turn 5%)
NParasite wins 4,365.00
 
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baudib1

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not bad. close though, i'd probably just 3-bet it/get it in pre.

edit: unless you think his range is unusually strong because he 2.5x instead of shoving.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Don't have him down as paticularly strong as he has done the same move for the 3rd time in a row and is not really tight. Figured Stop n go> Getting it in pre because I then have FE over Ax, and PP that haven't made a set. Probably folding out KQ type hands as well.
 
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WiZZiM

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If the plan was to stop and go, once you hit the flop this hard you can probably give up the plan and just C/R it on the flop. The Stop n go is used to get extra fold equity, but when we hit, we don't really want him to fold, we want him to feel obligated to c-bet then we can make an easy shove.
 
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BlueNowhere

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If the plan was to stop and go, once you hit the flop this hard you can probably give up the plan and just C/R it on the flop. The Stop n go is used to get extra fold equity, but when we hit, we don't really want him to fold, we want him to feel obligated to c-bet then we can make an easy shove.

Yea I did hesitate when the flop fell pretty nicely as check raising all in probably had more fold equity as well as getting more chips in if he did fold. I certainly would've took this like if I knew what hand he had. He had only cb 1/8 though and although it's a small sample size it's pretty telling. I didn't really want to give him a free card as if a queen or an ace comes I may be in pretty bad shape and also gives a PP another chance to make a set.
 
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WiZZiM

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Yea I did hesitate when the flop fell pretty nicely as check raising all in probably had more fold equity as well as getting more chips in if he did fold. I certainly would've took this like if I knew what hand he had. He had only cb 1/8 though and although it's a small sample size it's pretty telling. I didn't really want to give him a free card as if a queen or an ace comes I may be in pretty bad shape and also gives a PP another chance to make a set.

Ahh, well then i might have made it really small in the hopes he thinks we're full of shit and raises us. If he calls then we can just shove any turn pretty much.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Is my idea of keep a good preflop shoving hand like JKs for preflop shoving and keeping hands that you can't take any heat when called (62o etc) (i.e can't shove pre) for stop n go's a bit misguided or does it make sense, or is it just situation dependant?
 
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dj11

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I look at that hand and think C/R the flop. Villain would have bet it, pretty sure. But there is a subtle difference in how he would react to the C/R vs your version of the stop-and-go.
 
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baudib1

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Is my idea of keep a good preflop shoving hand like JKs for preflop shoving and keeping hands that you can't take any heat when called (62o etc) (i.e can't shove pre) for stop n go's a bit misguided or does it make sense, or is it just situation dependant?

I would just fold the 62o.

Stop-and-go's aren't as effective as they used to be, because most people know about them and they often smell like BS.

I'd mostly stop-and-go with AK, small-med pairs.
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

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im never stop and going AK, way too strong.

and very rarely medium pairs.

forget about stop and go basically. occasionally it might be useful but generally not
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

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because AK will dominate a ton of hands which people will call all in pre with and shoving just gives them a miss and fold when they would have called pre?
 
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baudib1

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AQ-AJ is 24 combinations as is TT-77, not sure if people are more likely to call off with 66- than AT/KQ but it's probably close.

I think TT-77 hands are more likely to call a shove pre and are more prone to fold on bad flops when we miss. Hard to call with 88 on a JTx board for instance or QJx.

AQ/AJ/KQ hands are more likely to call our shove flop anyway...Certainly when it's Axx but also on boards like KTx KQx and with gutterballs/naked overs.
 
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