$1.20 NLHE STT: Need help with my bubble play-Odd flop shove

[Clambake420]

$1.20 NL HE STT: Need help with my bubble play-Odd flop shove

im posting this hand for 2 reasons, 1)I am focusing on my bubble play and want to know if this was a good spot to try and steal blinds. 2)this is a weird play i see some villains make that im not sure what it means.

But anyways, villain seemed to be calling pretty wide which might have made this a bad idea to pick up blinds but i also know he defends his bb and has folded to flop/turn bets so i was not to worried when bb called (still kinda sucked when im holding A5o). But then he makes that odd shove on a weird flop. I can kind of rule out a 10 in his hand cause he would probably slow play or bet smaller since i most likely missed that flop with a lot of raising hands. i can see him holding a pp here or even a weaker 5. I was not gambling my tourney life here either way but i just want to get an idea as to what these shoves might mean, should i always be folding in this spot or is this a profitable call sometimes.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.2 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) (t2840)
SB (t5395)
BB (t3020)
UTG (t2245)

Hero's M: 12.62

Preflop: Hero is Button with

,

1 fold, Hero bets t450, 1 fold, BB calls t300

Flop: (t975)

,

,

(2 players)
BB bets t2550, Hero??

Total pot: t975

 

[c9h13no3]

Snap! We haz a pair (two actually), and the SPR is like 2.5 or something. So call.

And I kinda agree, A5o isn't a great hand, and its certainly not a hand I want to be holding against a blind defender.

 

[cardplayer52]

idk i guess it depends on gameflo and i'd also look at his donkbet stat. I don't like the 3x raise here since we fold to a shove preflop we might as well bet 2x-2.5x and save some chips the times we fold.

 

[baudib1]

shove pre

 

[cjatud2012]

shove pre

shoving here pre is a disaster...

 

[dg1267]

I didn't read any of the other posts, so if it's been said already I'm sorry.

This looks like a classic "stop and go". If you're not familiar with the term, that's where someone, usually the BB, will call a raise with a decent hand that he doesn't really want to fold with the intention of jamming any flop that he believes missed you.

With the flop coming out TT5 like that he can be pretty sure you're not holding a T, and because of your raise it's very unlikely you're holding a 5 (even though you are). So, if he's got a medium PP like 66-99, or AK, AQ type hands he can shove here comfortably and put the decision on you to make the call. Now if you didn't hit this flop, or like this situation, only hit the 5, it's gonna be a very tough call for you to make. I would note that this player possibly uses this technique and if you play with him much and see that he does this a lot it will be easier to make the decision when he does it again.

My first suggestion is to make your initial preflop raise smaller. 3xbb raises are okay in the first stage of a SnG, but as the game progresses, you need to make your initial raises smaller to keep them from inflating pots and getting you into these spots. When I have an opponent that is 3xbb raising on the bubble in high blinds, I'm looking for just this kind of a spot with almost any decent hand (and you can do it with ATC, but I don't like doing that much).

But make your initial raise more like 340. It doesn't seem like that much, but just look at the difference in sizes of cbets you'll be making. At 3xbb, the pot will be 975 on the flop, and with a 60% cbet you're looking at 585 chips. If you raise 340, the pot will be 755 with a 60% cbet of 450. That's 135 chips (almost 1 full BB) that you're saving if he jams. That 1BB could make a huge difference a couple of hands down the road.

 

[Clambake420]

I didn't read any of the other posts, so if it's been said already I'm sorry.

This looks like a classic "stop and go". If you're not familiar with the term, that's where someone, usually the BB, will call a raise with a decent hand that he doesn't really want to fold with the intention of jamming any flop that he believes missed you.

With the flop coming out TT5 like that he can be pretty sure you're not holding a T, and because of your raise it's very unlikely you're holding a 5 (even though you are). So, if he's got a medium PP like 66-99, or AK, AQ type hands he can shove here comfortably and put the decision on you to make the call. Now if you didn't hit this flop, or like this situation, only hit the 5, it's gonna be a very tough call for you to make. I would note that this player possibly uses this technique and if you play with him much and see that he does this a lot it will be easier to make the decision when he does it again.

My first suggestion is to make your initial preflop raise smaller. 3xbb raises are okay in the first stage of a SnG, but as the game progresses, you need to make your initial raises smaller to keep them from inflating pots and getting you into these spots. When I have an opponent that is 3xbb raising on the bubble in high blinds, I'm looking for just this kind of a spot with almost any decent hand (and you can do it with ATC, but I don't like doing that much).

But make your initial raise more like 340. It doesn't seem like that much, but just look at the difference in sizes of cbets you'll be making. At 3xbb, the pot will be 975 on the flop, and with a 60% cbet you're looking at 585 chips. If you raise 340, the pot will be 755 with a 60% cbet of 450. That's 135 chips (almost 1 full BB) that you're saving if he jams. That 1BB could make a huge difference a couple of hands down the road.

very well put. the only time im 2-2.5xbb raising is UTG, never thought about it in terms of pot sizes and relation to cbet sizes...good stuff ill apply these ideas to my game.

 

[dg1267]

Oh cool! Something I said helped someone.