$1.10 NLHE MTT: KK - Flush on the river

[A2020]

What you guys think of my call at the end?

Asking because after it the other player started saying it was "bad" and I kinda see his point, but the way the hand played I don't think it's that "bad" most of the time.


pokerstars, $0.98 + $0.12 - Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

sandlax (UTG): 1,140 (8 bb)
EGOR460 (UTG+1): 4,970 (33 bb)
American2020 (MP): 8,281 (55 bb)
Dam1328 (MP+1): 9,482 (63 bb)
pgremio (LP): 8,582 (57 bb)
pl@n-uragan (CO): 11,925 (80 bb)
zyllook (BU): 3,848 (26 bb)
rnxbocker (SB): 7,816 (52 bb)
charlie3570 (BB): 22,872 (152 bb)

Pre-Flop: (360) Hero (American2020) is MP with K♥ K♦
2 players fold, American2020 (MP) raises to 394, 5 players fold, charlie3570 (BB) calls 244

Flop: (998) 7♦ T♣ 7♣ (2 players)
charlie3570 (BB) checks, American2020 (MP) bets 549, charlie3570 (BB) calls 549

Turn: (2,096) 9♠ (2 players)
charlie3570 (BB) checks, American2020 (MP) bets 1,200, charlie3570 (BB) calls 1,200

River: (4,496) 5♣ (2 players)
charlie3570 (BB) bets 20,714 (all-in), American2020 (MP) calls 6,123 (all-in)

Total pot: 16,742

Showdown:
charlie3570 (BB) shows A♠ Q♣ (a pair of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 28%, Flop: 16%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

American2020 (MP) shows K♥ K♦ (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 72%, Flop: 84%, Turn: 93%, River: 100%)

American2020 (MP) wins 16,742

https://www.boomplayer.com/30820140_A53016B22B

 

[Alaercio da Rocha]

It was risky to pay for that flush but it was still a frustrating attempt to bluff him because he did not hit anything. I think your call on the river was fair he was very aggravated and it was in the face that he had no flush or crack.

 

[xOneCoolHandx]

What you guys think of my call at the end?

Asking because after it the other player started saying it was "bad" and I kinda see his point, but the way the hand played I don't think it's that "bad" most of the time.


PokerStars, $0.98 + $0.12 - Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

sandlax (UTG): 1,140 (8 bb)
EGOR460 (UTG+1): 4,970 (33 bb)
American2020 (MP): 8,281 (55 bb)
Dam1328 (MP+1): 9,482 (63 bb)
pgremio (LP): 8,582 (57 bb)
pl@n-uragan (CO): 11,925 (80 bb)
zyllook (BU): 3,848 (26 bb)
rnxbocker (SB): 7,816 (52 bb)
charlie3570 (BB): 22,872 (152 bb)

Pre-Flop: (360) Hero (American2020) is MP with K♥ K♦
2 players fold, American2020 (MP) raises to 394, 5 players fold, charlie3570 (BB) calls 244

Flop: (998) 7♦ T♣ 7♣ (2 players)
charlie3570 (BB) checks, American2020 (MP) bets 549, charlie3570 (BB) calls 549

Turn: (2,096) 9♠ (2 players)
charlie3570 (BB) checks, American2020 (MP) bets 1,200, charlie3570 (BB) calls 1,200

River: (4,496) 5♣ (2 players)
charlie3570 (BB) bets 20,714 (all-in), American2020 (MP) calls 6,123 (all-in)

Total pot: 16,742

Showdown:
charlie3570 (BB) shows A♠ Q♣ (a pair of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 28%, Flop: 16%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

American2020 (MP) shows K♥ K♦ (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 72%, Flop: 84%, Turn: 93%, River: 100%)

American2020 (MP) wins 16,742

https://www.boomplayer.com/30820140_A53016B22B

A2020, you played that just right. Let's look at how it played out. You put in a fairly small raise from middle position with a monster (probably hoping to either get action or have someone get frisky and 3 bet you), Charlie calls from BB. Just calling at this point, esp with his stack size would tell me that he has a playable hand but I would have to have played with for awhile to determine a range for him. Flop comes 7 10 7. The check from Charlie tells me that he missed. If he had a 7 or 10 he would have made some kind of bet in most situations to protect against you having 4 to a flush or straight, although he may be a trappy style player (again, it would depend on my read of his style) but when he just called your raise, I would have definitely known he had missed the flop even if he was trappy because he would have put in some kind of raise here hoping to get you pot committed and/or to protect his hand (Although, he could have also thought that you were just making a CB (depending on his read of you). The turn comes a 9 meaning there is a potential straight out there. Again, if he had hit the straight, he would have bet out or if he was sitting on a 10 or 7, he would have bet out, again to protect his hand. He affirmed this by calling again. At this point I would guess that he was floating to turn to make a big bluff on the river. When he pushed the river (especially the all in push), I would guess like you that he was bluffing. If he had a straight or flush, then he would want you to put some chips in the pot, knowing that you had bet each round, he would have checked and let you bet and then pushed. This bet was meant to intimidate you, why would he want to scare you out of the pot? Because he has nothing to beat you with. Yes, there was a potential flush and a potential straight and if he had a 7 then you are beat, but again. Why chase you off your hand? This was well played. The other player saying it was a bad call was just mad that you caught him in a bluff. He probably pulled this same stunt throughout the tournament without getting called and you exposed him. After this hand your stacks were about even. How did each of you finish?

 

[sheltowee420]

Sometimes going all-in pre-flop is the only way to play pocket (AA) or (KK). This is risky, but many times you can fold-out players, instead of letting them catch on the run. In a low stakes game (for me), I find that players refuse to fold, so I am forced to slow play, and try to keep the pot low, and they always hit the river. In a higher stakes game, players more capable of folding, so a push might have worked. I think you played the hand OK, but wasted some chips on the river.

 

[zuker]

you shuld bet more on every street:
preflop raise 500
flop,turn 3/4 pot or maybe more
on river hard fold

 

[Katie Dozier]

Good call and hand! My only suggestion would be to think about the possibility of the flush coming in before you get to that point. Ie, decide that you’re going to go with your hand on the turn and make a bigger (roughly pot sized bet there). That way I think you also increase his bluffing percent on the river. Nh

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

usually you will be losing here on this river when you call the overbet jam.

generally when facing a check call, check call, lead river line it indicates a strong hand. Even stronger if it's a big bet.

this time you were correct. if you have reasons to know this guy will spew off like this then it's fine. but vs population I'm folding river.

 

[A2020]

A2020, you played that just right. Let's look at how it played out. You put in a fairly small raise from middle position with a monster (probably hoping to either get action or have someone get frisky and 3 bet you), Charlie calls from BB. Just calling at this point, esp with his stack size would tell me that he has a playable hand but I would have to have played with for awhile to determine a range for him. Flop comes 7 10 7. The check from Charlie tells me that he missed. If he had a 7 or 10 he would have made some kind of bet in most situations to protect against you having 4 to a flush or straight, although he may be a trappy style player (again, it would depend on my read of his style) but when he just called your raise, I would have definitely known he had missed the flop even if he was trappy because he would have put in some kind of raise here hoping to get you pot committed and/or to protect his hand (Although, he could have also thought that you were just making a CB (depending on his read of you). The turn comes a 9 meaning there is a potential straight out there. Again, if he had hit the straight, he would have bet out or if he was sitting on a 10 or 7, he would have bet out, again to protect his hand. He affirmed this by calling again. At this point I would guess that he was floating to turn to make a big bluff on the river. When he pushed the river (especially the all in push), I would guess like you that he was bluffing. If he had a straight or flush, then he would want you to put some chips in the pot, knowing that you had bet each round, he would have checked and let you bet and then pushed. This bet was meant to intimidate you, why would he want to scare you out of the pot? Because he has nothing to beat you with. Yes, there was a potential flush and a potential straight and if he had a 7 then you are beat, but again. Why chase you off your hand? This was well played. The other player saying it was a bad call was just mad that you caught him in a bluff. He probably pulled this same stunt throughout the tournament without getting called and you exposed him. After this hand your stacks were about even. How did each of you finish?

Thanks for the details on your answer. Honestly I forgot how we finished, I know at the end he busted earlier than me. But I don't remember what my score was on that one.

PS: The player saying "bad call" was that opponent himself

 

[A2020]

Good call and hand! My only suggestion would be to think about the possibility of the flush coming in before you get to that point. Ie, decide that you’re going to go with your hand on the turn and make a bigger (roughly pot sized bet there). That way I think you also increase his bluffing percent on the river. Nh

Thanks, yes seams like my play on the turn could have been a bit different.

 

[A2020]

usually you will be losing here on this river when you call the overbet jam.

generally when facing a check call, check call, lead river line it indicates a strong hand. Even stronger if it's a big bet.

this time you were correct. if you have reasons to know this guy will spew off like this then it's fine. but vs population I'm folding river.

I'm still playing mainly for fun, so I usually don't have notes on players or labels on them. I'm not sure what to make a note on players for, or reason to label them, but from what I had seen for this player on the hands since the tournament started, it made me think he was most likely bluffing.
Turns out this time it worked for me, but I think that yes, on the long run and under other circumstances my call wouldn't be the best move there.

It's the first time I post a hand for analysis on CardsChat, I believe I'm going to it more often, this is a great way to learn more about the game. Even when I play for fun, it's always good to improve.

 

[zekubiki]

risky call on the river, but the flash would have just played. perhaps so he would play only a full, but the TT would be rearranged before the flop you still so difficult, but the right call.

only that since it is a small size of the rate on the flop and turn. it should be at least 3/4 of the bank, to knock all draw.

 

[xOneCoolHandx]

Thanks for the details on your answer. Honestly I forgot how we finished, I know at the end he busted earlier than me. But I don't remember what my score was on that one.

PS: The player saying "bad call" was that opponent himself

Yeah, that's what I meant. You caught him in his bluff. I do agree with Kate that you could have played a little stronger, especially on the turn. But, we don't know how the table was playing and you were trying to get a big hand paid.

What I don't agree with is the people saying that this was a bad call because a lot of times players will check/call, check/call and then push. In my experience, this is not usually the case. There are some players who will do this, but most players will check/call, check/call and then either check the river expecting you to bet or value bet the river with strong hands (praying that the weakness induces a raise or at least a call). They want to get paid off, not scare you into folding where they get less value for their premium hand. However, it is player dependent. You go with your read on the player.

I actually run into this pretty frequently in both ring games and tournaments. You have a certain player that will put his opponent all in on nearly every river. Especially when a scare card hits. This is because YOUR betting pattern told him that you had a strong hand, but that hand is susceptible. You raised preflop and then bet the flop and turn. This player is thinking that you either had a big pocket pair or possibly a medium pocket pair that hit a set. The texture of the flop showed potential straight and flush draws that would match up to hands in his calling range. By simply calling your bets, he was showing that he was still drawing. If he had a small pair that had hit trips, then he would also be scared of the board and your potential range of starting hands and would raise to protect his hand. That tells me that he is either is (or wants me to believe he is) drawing. When he pushed the river, he was telling you that he hit his draw and wants paid off. But the general rule in poker is that you want to see what your opponent wants you to do, and do the opposite. When they are pretending to be weak, then they are strong; when they are pretending to be strong, they are weak. Of course, there are players out there that will show strong when they are strong and play weak when they are weak (these are generally NOT good players). So, it all comes down to how you read the player.

I think your read was dead on here, this guy was bluff shoving a nothing hand hoping for you to fold. He knew it was the only way to win the pot because if he checks, you either bet and leave him a tough decision or you check behind and he has limited his losses (because he knows ace high is not going to be good here) but has invested a lot of chips. Again, I see this all the time and I trust my reads on whether to fold or call.

 

[sirrupetot]

Without a read or something i'll probably fold river.

 

[Brawo]

BB always has wide range on the flop, call your bet and here you have to ask yourself "what is he calling me with?" 10-x? probably 7-6 , 8-7 has a lot of equity preflop, flash draw? This flop is outside your range, but you bet on the every street. You bet half pot, rather not flash draw because pot odds to flush was horrible and it will be mistake to call. Charlie is calling - station, if he had straight draw maybe he get it, but it is very unlikely. What can I say more? It looks like he drawed to flush and get it on the river. If I were you hmm difficult spot, he played all - in, you have to pay 6k to 9k pot, I fold, too many dangers. You only invested 2k, 25% your chips. You leave yourself enough to play comfortable yet.

 

[XxDeckers]

In my opinion it was not risky what you did. You tried to extract as many chips as possible, because BB will always pay any kind of hand if you raise, watch his stack, he was playing deep, or the tendency is for him to come with marginal hands to defend the BB. And in case your game was also deep, I think you did well to have gone until the end.

 

[JBGoode]

As played you got max value, but with that board BB has range advatage even though you have Postion....

Personally I would have check the turn, and called off rivers. I dont think hes over betting rivers if you check the turn.... only really bad players do this, and it's almost never with value. Granted it does complete the flush. In which case bad players will over value, but I doubt it because of the paired board.

The 5 is a terrible bluff card even though it completes the flush, especially for a donk overbet.... because of the paired board. this guy either flopped a boat, and thought you would call with less, or it was a bluff... (an emotional jam on the river on a missed draw)

Even though you got max value in this spot against a terrible player, if that river card come a K, 8, or Q.... I dont see how you could make this call.... if you check turn, you either check down for showdown with your KK. Or call a marginal bet instead of a jam.

 

[mara2259]

I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth, but I do not like the way you played your hand. Preflop raise is too small, which allows you to enter the game with Ah or speculative hands. Raising with a 3/4 pot after the flop gives you a good chance to call, and the board has the threat of a flush draw or straight draw. While you are still ahead, but the villain must pay for the opportunity to see the next card. By your indecisiveness, you provoked the villain to bluff and made a good sum. Now try to look at your actions if you played against the hand of AQ ♣