$1.10 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked Rebuy: Waking up with QQ and this happens

T

tzuriel

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No Limit Hold'em Tournament T350/T700
Buy-in: Tournament #24171181 - Holdem(No Limit)
Winning Poker Network
8 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (
T35,294)
UTG+2 - UTG+2 (
T50,000)
MP - MP (
T49,510)
MP2 - MP2 (
T99,977)
CO - CO (
T63,432)
BTN - Hero (
T152,373)
UTG - UTG (
T124,606)
BB - BB (
T50,440)

Preflop: (
T680, 8 players) Hero is BTN with Q♦ Q♥1 fold, UTG+2 calls T700, 1 fold, MP2 raises to T3,150, 1 fold, Hero raises to T8,565, 3 folds, MP2 calls T5,415

Flop:
T♥ 9♥ 9♦ (T18,510, 2 players - Hero: T143,723, MP2: T91,327)MP2 bets T91,327 (all-in), 1 fold, Uncalled bet of T91,327 returned to MP2

Total Pot:
T18,510

MP2 wins T19,560



Very textured board. I have no info on Villain. This was like level 4 of this tourney and I was the chip leader with like 200BB. When he called my 3bet PF, I assume he's got at least TT or better. On this textured flop with no improvement to my QQ, I think I made the right decision to not call off half my stack in level 3.

Was my 3bet too small?

What do you all think?

 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
I think, your 3-bet was a little bit to small. With stacks this deep and some dead money from the limper, I would make it 9.500-10.000 to go.

Flop
Flop comes T9 2-tone, and now he donk jam for 4,5X the pot. So the question is, what kind of range do we put him on? First of all I think, that if he flopped a full house, he would be very unlikely to do this, since he would want to get value. I also dont think, he have KK or AA, because if he did decide to slowplay these hands preflop, he would want to continue "setting the trap" postflop.

His move is like saying "please fold and let me win a small pot", and typically people either do that with a weak made hand, that needs protection, or they do it with a draw. He could perhaps be "protection jamming" with 9X, but I would expect to see hands like JJ or AT more often than 9X. If nothing else there are less available combos of 9X, because we see two of them on the table. And then he can have draws.

So against most opponents I would call here. You are playing a 1$ tournament, and even if you call and lose, you are still in it. And I just dont think, this wild move is going to be a nutted hand all that often. In fairness though you do have one of the worst overpairs to call with, because you block QJ. So if you want to fold some of your overpairs, it is a reasonable decision to let go of JJ and QQ, and stick it in with KK and AA.
 
Edu1

Edu1

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I think is very small 3 bet, should be at least 10K

after the flop I also think you make the right decision

I think is dificult MP2 to have JJ or less.

in best scenario to you, he should have at least a flush draw, in a 60% vs 40% equity situation. in my opnion don't worth call in early game
 
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fundiver199

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I think is dificult MP2 to have JJ or less.


This is where, I tend to disagree. I have played a lot of microstakes games over the past 3 years, and I have very regularly seen this line taken with a hand like AT. And yes this is bad. But a good player dont do this with any hand, so we know already, that Villain is a bad player (donkey).

The psycology going into this is, that if he check-call, a lot of turn cards are going to be uncomfortable for him. They bring an overcard to his pair, or they complete one of the draws. And to avoid that situation he just ships it in on the flop. I guess, there are also some recreational players, who think, the 3-better always has AK. So whenever AK has missed, they feel, they are ahead with any made hand.
 
Edu1

Edu1

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This is where, I tend to disagree. I have played a lot of microstakes games over the past 3 years, and I have very regularly seen this line taken with a hand like AT. And yes this is bad. But a good player dont do this with any hand, so we know already, that Villain is a bad player (donkey).

The psycology going into this is, that if he check-call, a lot of turn cards are going to be uncomfortable for him. They bring an overcard to his pair, or they complete one of the draws. And to avoid that situation he just ships it in on the flop. I guess, there are also some recreational players, who think, the 3-better always has AK. So whenever AK has missed, they feel, they are ahead with any made hand.


yes I understand you

but if you look back the play, a donk micro stake player would raise the limper with ATo and pay the 3bet out of position? I think is very improbable

the key factor to "remove" AT from MP2 range, is the limper in UTG+2

the ATo is not a great hand to "isolate" the limper, even a donkey aggro player knows that

most of the time is a suited hand, like KJh
 
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fundiver199

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but if you look back the play, a donk micro stake player would raise the limper with ATo and pay the 3bet out of position? I think is very improbable

I would certainly isolate the limper with AT and a lot of other hands as well. The position of the limper does not really matter, since most limpers play 30-60% of hands from any position. This is why, isolating limps is so massively profitable. I also think, the "donkey" can call a 3-bet with a very wide range of hands, because Hero made it small, and stacks are very deep as well. "Donkey" started with almost 100k chips, so he can certainly afford to put in another 5,5k and try to hit something or outplay Hero after the flop.

I am not saying, this is phist pump call. I would rather have AA or KK, and I would rather have stacks be just a little bit shorter. It is quite a lot to put in 140BB with just QQ on T99 board. But I still think, this is a profitable call long term, because I just dont think, this line is a nut hand very often. But sure calling is very high variance. Sometimes we will get shown A9, and we have huge egg all over our face, because we are drawing to two outs. And other times we will be shown some kind of draw or AT, and he gets there, because he has equity.
 
Edu1

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I would certainly isolate the limper with AT and a lot of other hands as well. The position of the limper does not really matter, since most limpers play 30-60% of hands from any position. This is why, isolating limps is so massively profitable.


ATo? alot of hands you do that? can you put a range?

hands that isolate and pay 3bet

isolate is one thing, pay 3bet is another, is another range

this mention of 30% to 60% limp range, is questionable too

to isolate someone and be "massive" profitable, the limper have to call with this 30% range, steal the pot is not "massive profitable"

who limps call with Q9o (one of the worst hands in 30%)in UTG per example?

not even in a freeroll you see that

poker is not soo simple
 
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kkonicke

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I think I'm making the call here. It's a $1.10 tournament, so you're going to run into punters quite often. Sometimes he'll have 9x, more often he'll have draws or 10x. One thing to note, your QQ blocks QJ and QT...also your Qh blocks quite a few flush draw or combo draws.
 
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fundiver199

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isolate is one thing, pay 3bet is another, is another range

With this sizing from Hero and very deep stacks, I think, Villain is continuing against the 3-bet with the vast majority of his range. You have to remember also, that this is a 1,1$ MTT, and given his postflop line he has to be a recreational player. Recreational players are looking for fun, and folding is not fun, so they dont fold, unless they need to risk a substantial portion of their stack to continue.

this mention of 30% to 60% limp range, is questionable too

Not according to my HUD. There are plenty of recreational players in the micros with stats like 60/8 or 30/5.
to isolate someone and be "massive" profitable, the limper have to call with this 30% range, steal the pot is not "massive profitable"

Its more profitable, if they fold. If you pick it up against a single limper, you win a pot of around 3,5BB including antes. The only hands, that win more than that on average in cash games, is AA and KK. I know this from my PT4 database.
who limps call with Q9o (one of the worst hands in 30%)in UTG per example?

A ton of recreational players.

not even in a freeroll you see that

For sure you do, and you also see it all the time in the micros and even to some extend in low stakes games like 5,5-16,5$ MTTs. Not everyone plays well, which is why, there is still money to be made in this game :)
 
dallam

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This will be only a personal opinion, and you were placed in a weird situation. :)

As we are not exactly afraid to see an all-in with the queens, but for showing some clear domination, I would raise too something like 10-12K from this position.
.
I would also say that villain couldn't hit here full, it would be bald from anyone to scare away the people when you have the perfect combination, and others could improve on turn easily, maybe on river. In worst cases if he had 10-10 its even more an insane cooler, but he could have 109s as well.
A9s can be in this pre-raise and call, KQ can be too seeing his reaction. What else? QQ, JJ, A10, K10, KJs, JQs,. In additon, KK as well, cause he was might afraid from the Ace but having such a huge relief and went all-in with them -- but this one is just not so imaginable.

Anyway so from villain's bald bet, I could see 11 possible hands, and 4 of them would beat you here.
As it was a rebuy-tourney and such an early stage in a micro level, he more likely had connectors to defend (flush or straight), or defend the 10, maybe JJ or QQ.

I think the best choice could be a call, as you would have 250K and its not succeed still starter stack with 70(!!)BBs and very usefull informations from villain.
 
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tzuriel

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As it was a rebuy-tourney and such an early stage in a micro level, he more likely had connectors to defend (flush or straight), or defend the 10, maybe JJ or QQ.

I think the best choice could be a call, as you would have 250K and its not succeed still starter stack with 70(!!)BBs and very usefull informations from villain.



Yep. Considering the level of the tournament I could have lost and still been okay. Thank you for responding!
 
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