$1.10 NLHE MTT: AQo shove early

jbbb

jbbb

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About 5 hands in the tournament, I get this crazy hand. Is this a shove pre flop? So many limpers, so much weakness, I don't think anybody (except for maybe sred) can beat AQ (maybe a race against a medium pocket pair).

http://www.pelopoker.com/show_replayer.php?id=3560094756&hostid=1000

tbh i would have played it the same. Dunno if it's the right way though. When shoving i'd assume 'tim' and 'undefined' would fold as they've just limp-called which is might weak. So you're effectively risking 300 (shreds effective stack size) to win ~1500 or something like that (maths is very sketchy).
So try to shove to isolate. Obv being a $1.10 donkament they snap call with shit. Eitherway, you gotta ride you luck IMO. Ax, QT+ KT+ is a vague calling range depending on how fishy these people are, and as you can tell you smashing this range so just get it in pre if they're gonna call.
 
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WiZZiM

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In a $1 game, we're rarely getting anyone to fold here, so i'd probably opt to check this pre-flop. Yes it's kind of a weak way to play a strong hand, but the thing is we're almost always getting multiple callers here so essentially we're bloating the pot out of position and we're only hitting the flop one third of the time. So a lot of flops we're going to be either check/folding, or c-betting (bluffing) the flop and we're in no mans land if they happen to call postflop.

So yeah, with the stacks the way they are, i'd usually opt to check, but the other route i'd take is to just shove it all in, you are likely to get some really silly calls pre-flop and it saves the hassle of playing postflop in a large pot out of position.
 
JamesDaBear

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I agree with above that AQo is strong enough to make a raise, but it's also vulnerable enough against multiple opponents to see a free and cheap flop, which should be your default really from the blinds. This way you risk absolutely nothing when you whiff (it's not like losing out on a 180 chip pot will kill you) and you don't lose any customers when you actually hit the flop.

However, you have no reason to think you don't have the best hand right now with all them limpers, so I don't fault you for raising to pick up those chips without seeing a flop, or thin the field and get them to put in chips with a weaker hand. Your raise size screams strong but vulnerable hand, so I'm not shocked at all you got a call from the utg limper, a big stack, a shove from the short stack and another call from a bigger stack. You're not repping anything that would get a pair to fold with that raise... and then they still might call you with the implied odds to pick up the rest of your stack if the flop a set. With that many limpers and being on the big blind, the standard, even with a strong hand is at least 200, probably closer to 300.

As far as your re-re-raise shove goes, I like it. The only aggression has come from you and the short stack, and you're definitely not folding to his shove. You just have to accept even being a small dog here, as it's highly unlikely anybody is slow-playing QQ+ (except maybe the short stack... but oh well if he is). You want at least one of the remaining big stacks to fold if possible, but if they don't, you know you've got the right odds to build a big stack for yourself (this is confirmed by how they checked it down to the end, even though we can't see any of their cards).
 
dj11

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never saw the results, did undefined show KK?
 
JamesDaBear

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(this is confirmed by how they checked it down to the end, even though we can't see any of their cards).

I didn't see on the end that the big stack "tim" folded to "undefined"'s open shove on the river. I thought that shipped the pot to the "hero", but there was no showdown either (horrible replayer). However, I find it highly unlikely that "undefined" would play an overpair this way, especially KK. There's no way that gets checked on the turn with so many chips already in the pot. There's no hand QQ+ that "tim" folds there either. AA calls, KK definitely calls, QQ is impossible and AK even calls.
 
taaron

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agreed;

showdown value in not even a consideration;
u made the rite play; i would have (maybe- i wasn't there so . . .take w/ a grain of salt; =w.a.g.s. (new 1 any1);
only other thing is a 2/3rds call instead of shove. . . just a thought; nice flop/ turn though!
:)
 
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CampaLoa

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Thanks a lot for all the helpfull advice!

About the replayer: I removed the hands from the opponents, so it wouldn't influence the thoughts about the hands. The short stack showed 49s (also said "ahh well **** it", before re-shoving) and the other guy KJo and I did manage to triple/quadruple up.

I think it's kind of a tricky spot indeed, we don't wanna blow up the pot OOP against lot's of likely callers, but we also gotta protect our hand I guess. The big raise to about 200-300 sounds a good option too, but this blows up the pot even bigger, which in turn we have to play OOP again... It seemed quite clear I had to make this play I did, but I suppose it is actually very borderline
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

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Typically you want to 3x +1bb for each limper, & if OOP, make it 4x+1bb for each limper. So,... maybe raise to 250 preflop imo.
 
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