$1.10 NL HE MTT: How to play two pair OOP on wet flop against a fish

[Andyreas]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

1.10

PFR

0

Game Options

1. Turbo

Currency

$

This is at the end of late reg at the $1.10 Hyper MTT on BOL.

Everyone is still super deep with around 80 BBs average.

I get in SB (78 BBs) and decide to call a min-raise. 5 people see the flop.

Flop: Pot 10.8 BBs


I decide to check and see what happens.

EP fish bets 1/2 pot, 1 fold, BN calls. I went for a check-raise to 1/2 pot. BB folds, fish calls, BN calls.

Turn: Pot ~50 BBs.


Of course not the card I wanted. I decide to jam with SPR of 1 as semi -bluff to potentially challenge a min-flush.

Fish calls with , BN folds.

River doesn't bring a FH, so I bust.

I think my ideas were not bad but poorly executed.

• My check-raise was too small. What would have been the right sizing?
• And the other question is, since fish overcall anyway, often with any flush draw. Should I just call and evaluate turn/river?
• Should I have given up on turn and find a better opportunity with the 50ish BBs?

This hyper MTT is tricky anyway since some players call 3 streets with K high for example, so it's like the box of pandora, you never know what to expect. 🤣

 

[dallam]

Would also flat into this family pot.

When we managed to hit top two, I believe since we are sitting on SB is nothing more we can do here is a check-call, letting the pot remain somewhere cheap. Don't forget that maybe there could be several fishes at the table, but we are having a hand which is not close to the absolute nuts yet, but still favourable to end up in a naughty pot-win. And I assume to see everytime an action into this board so you even not have to size it up, or commiting yourself.


When there's a half-pot raise and a call on the flop, you should immediately put one of them to the flush draw, since when multiways are happening on such a cheap prize, people are getting into it with small and medium pocket pairs but also with flush & straight draw hands, so you need to be so careful and not raising much when the texture - mixed with the deep stacks let them chase their combinations.

So because of this recognition, I would advice to check-call all the way until it's sensible to do it, and this way you can rescue your tournament life if any unfomfortable card fall down and survive with a solid stack too. Or winning a pretty nice pot, if they miss their outs, cause apart from the original agressor here, no one will show better ones than two pairs on the flop as the action came around.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Not doing much calling from SB in general, but I can get on board with this one.

Flop
Multiway it would be fine to simply lead out here, but check-raising is fine as well.

Turn
Normally we dont need to completely panic, just because a flushdraw complete. But in this particular spot 5 people were involved in the hand, and two players called a check-raise on the flop. You also block top pair and second pair making it less likely, they have that. So I think, its very likely, at least one of them has a draw, and while it could also be QT or T8, there are definitely a lot of flushes in their ranges. And even more so because the flush cards are so low. All the AX, KX and QX is available for them to have. So I think, this is a check and evaluate spot. Ideally you want it to check through, and then you want to not see another spade, a K or an 8 on the river. I think, when you jam here, you are just value owning yourself, when someone has it, and getting everything worse than your hand to fold.

 

[I Live Poker]

Hello, I would like to know: _ the pot was 10bb a raise 1/2 and a flat the pot was 20bb right? your check raise only 10bb?
In case that was it, in my point of view your check raise vs 2 opponents is very small, given the stack depth. It is very easy to call to see the flush, you give pot odds to call. (I would really like to run this hand on the HUD)
I would do something 25 bb to run the draws and aim at the hands you are winning, sometimes it may be better to stop extracting more and protect a little of your value (if you only had draws you would pull the pot and stop having lost everything) .
You mentioned how to play two pair vs fish. Well in the deep stack strategy I like to implement the over pot vs opponent calling stations and wet boards, the only difficulty in the over pot is to balance the range of value and bluff because you will not do it at a high frequency with bluffs, but you will have to do , however this range balance is not as important at micro stakes as your opponents will all be unbalanced and not pay much attention to it . So when you isolate the value hands it will go unnoticed for them, many times they will pay dearly to see your draw.

 

[mcbeaker]

Hi Andy,

first basic thought: it's a hyper mtt. Over 80 big blinds are not particularly deep here. There's no time to wait for monsters. With a strong hand like Top Two you have enough equity against flush draws and open enders, top pairs and possibly even an overpair. Ideally, the chips should go into the middle on the flop as quickly as possible and we hope for the best. So lead out or check-raise pot. If you run against a set of 4s, then off to the next tournament. But if, like here, two people call and the 3-flush arrives, then someone has it. Even if nobody has it .

On the turn, especially against fish on the micros, trying to get someone to fold his small flush is futile. This works even worse if you don't have a high spade in your own hand. The approach here should be more reminiscent of a cash game hand in Omaha. You're often playing against different draws, and you should consider folding on turns like this. At least if it's against more than one opponent.

 

[fundiver199]

Of course not the card I wanted. I decide to jam with SPR of 1 as semi -bluff to potentially challenge a min-flush.

I kind of glossed over this in my first reply, but turning top two pair into a bluff makes no sense. You are never getting people to fold a better hand, especially not in a 1,1$ MTT. And you also dont need to bluff, since you could still have the best hand, and you have 4 outs to boat up on the river. To be honest I also think, this might be a bit of post hand justification from your part? What it looks more like to me is a thought process something like this:

"F.... this stupid card. I know, I am probably beat now, but I am not going to check-fold top two pair. So I just jam, and if I lose, it just goes to show, how bad I run."

This is a mental place, I have certainly been myself many times. And even more so if I dont really care about the buyin, as I know, you dont do in a 1,1$ MTT, since you are overrolled for such games and also play much higher. And its important to realise it, when we are allowing our emotions to take over, and as a result end up making negative EV decisions

 

[Andyreas]

You are never getting people to fold a better hand, especially not in a 1,1$ MTT.

That's a fair point! 👍

Your reasoning isn't totally out of the place for sure.

I have seen this player jamming J4s AIPF for 15 bigs and a few hands before, I saw another player calling down all bets with K high.

Therefore I wasn't entirely sure to be beat but of course it was quite likely.

Therefore I called it "semi-bluff". 😅

And its important to realise it, when we are allowing our emotions to take over, and as a result end up making negative EV decisions

I definitely need to work on that.

Yesterday, I min-raised AdAc and got two callers.

Flop comes As8d4d. I bet half pot, get one caller.

Turn comes 6d. Bet again, get called.

So I smelled the flush but still had many outs to nut flush or boat.

River didn't improve my hand. Bet again, get raised but couldn't find the fold. He had KdTd for a flush. 😅

I still need to learn the hero folds but a set of aces is still too hard to fold for me. 🙈

 

[Sebbour]

I still need to learn the hero folds but a set of aces is still too hard to fold for me.

Good to know. See ya at the home games table sooner or later.

 

[fundiver199]

I have seen this player jamming J4s AIPF for 15 bigs and a few hands before, I saw another player calling down all bets with K high.

Therefore I wasn't entirely sure to be beat but of course it was quite likely.

Therefore I called it "semi-bluff". 😅

But then its not a semi-bluff. Semi-bluff mean, we are trying to get better hands to fold, but if we get action, we have at least some chance to improve. In this case 4 outs to a boat. Here a turn jam is not a semi-bluff, because its very unlikely, they fold a better hand. if people draw to a flush, they are not folding to a turn jam, when they make it. And neither are they folding a set on the turn with only a pot sized bet left.

So if this turn jam has a justification, it has to be, that its for value. Meaning that you have the best hand more than 50% of the time when called. And thats possible. It depends a lot on, how wide and bad these two guys are. Will they still call with a straightdraw for instance, with or without a spade? And will they still call with top pair? Maybe. And against a single opponent I could get on board with a jam.

But against two I think, its very optimistic. If one of them have a J, then we kind of need to ask ourselfes, what the other one have, given that three jacks are now spoken for? And of course the logical answer is a draw. So there is more risk of being beat multiway, and it does not help anything, if one of them call you with top pair, if the other one then also call with a flush.

Yesterday, I min-raised AdAc and got two callers.

Flop comes As8d4d. I bet half pot, get one caller.

Turn comes 6d. Bet again, get called.

So I smelled the flush but still had many outs to nut flush or boat.

River didn't improve my hand. Bet again, get raised but couldn't find the fold. He had KdTd for a flush. 😅

I still need to learn the hero folds but a set of aces is still too hard to fold for me. 🙈

Or maybe in this case either check-call or bet-fold river instead of bet-calling. Before betting the river its always a good idea to think ahead about, what your action will be, if you get raised. The reason for this is, that its easier to decide in advance on a bet-fold than to execute it, when the raise has already happened. In that situation the emotional part of our brain tends to take over, and we make an "F.... it" type call knowing perfectly well, its a bad call.

Or alternatively check-call instead, especially if there are many busted draws, and/or the opponent is bluff happy. You did not mention the river card, but in general what worse hand will call 3 bets, when you block top pair and the best two pair combinations? Probably not many, so you are not giving up on a ton of value by checking the river.

 

[Andyreas]

Thank you for your input, @fundiver199 . Very helpful as always 🤗

You did not mention the river card

The river was 3h, if I remember correctly. So a pretty blank card.

Probably not many, so you are not giving up on a ton of value by checking the river.

Fair point. I think he'd still have jammed on me since he had less than a pot bet left. But I definitely need to learn to fold those hands.

In that situation the emotional part of our brain tends to take over, and we make an "F.... it" type call knowing perfectly well, its a bad call.

This was exactly my thinking. 🙈

 

[fundiver199]

Fair point. I think he'd still have jammed on me since he had less than a pot bet left.

In that case we generally dont have a bet-fold range. So you can either jam or check-call depending on, which line you think makes his range the widest. Without info that is typically check-call, since it opens the door for people to bluff. And if you coolered him with a set over set, he might still bet thinking, he has the best hand.