$1.10 NL HE MTT: Good spots to bluff?

[mariussica88]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

1.10

Currency

$

I will post 2 hands in this thread and I would like to know your guys opinions on them.

First hand: SB vs BB

BB stats: VPIP 29 PFR 29

Would you guys bluff in this position?

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 50/100 (10 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 735 (7 bb)
UTG+1: 2,816 (28 bb)
MP: 2,569 (26 bb)
MP+1: 1,601 (16 bb)
LP: 4,108 (41 bb)
CO: 4,061 (41 bb)
BU: 4,427 (44 bb)
SB (Hero): 2,193 (22 bb)
BB: 5,644 (56 bb)

Pre-Flop: (240) Hero is SB with A♣ 7♥
7 players fold, Hero raises to 250, BB calls 150

Flop: (590) 4♣ 3♣ Q♣ (2 players)
Hero bets 183, BB calls 183

Turn: (956) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero bets 296, BB calls 296

River: (1,548) K♥ (2 players)
Hero ?


Hand no. 2 :

BB has 12 hands played: VPIP 8 PFR 8

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (2 ante) - 8 players

UTG: 1,996 (100 bb)
UTG+1: 1,996 (100 bb)
MP: 1,936 (97 bb)
MP+1: 2,042 (102 bb)
CO (Hero): 1,986 (99 bb)
BU: 1,966 (98 bb)
SB: 2,082 (104 bb)
BB: 1,996 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: (46) Hero is CO with 7♣ T♣
4 players fold, Hero raises to 80, 2 players fold, BB calls 60

Flop: (186) A♥ J♠ 4♦ (2 players)
BB bets 60, Hero raises to 210, BB calls 150

Turn: (606) 3♥ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (606) 6♠ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

On the flop I decided to raise and represent an A. Is betting here from my part an option?

 

[spunka]

Dont think a bluff at hand 2 is good and no reason to waste more.
at hand 1 a bluff could work, bit your post flop and turn should maybee have signal more strenght, still a bluff has a good chance, and also your hand might be good.

 

[Statsman1]

Hand 1 - excellent shot at a bluff there, if you ask me. You showed strength the whole way (as the fellow above says, perhaps you could have bet more on the turn, but you got him to call, so that's good), so I would fire away on the river.

Hand 2 - your check on the turn doesn't really help a bluff on the river. Let's say I am the villain here. You raised the flop, so yes, I could believe you had the A, but I called...so maybe I have the A or J as well. Checking on the turn tells me you perhaps don't have the A, so if I do have the A or J, I am good. River doesn't scare me if I have either the A or J AND I think you do not have the A, so bluffing here would be a mistake, in my opinion.

 

[eetenor]

I will post 2 hands in this thread and I would like to know your guys opinions on them.

First hand: SB vs BB

BB stats: VPIP 29 PFR 29

Would you guys bluff in this position?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 50/100 (10 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 735 (7 bb)
UTG+1: 2,816 (28 bb)
MP: 2,569 (26 bb)
MP+1: 1,601 (16 bb)
LP: 4,108 (41 bb)
CO: 4,061 (41 bb)
BU: 4,427 (44 bb)
SB (Hero): 2,193 (22 bb)
BB: 5,644 (56 bb)

Pre-Flop: (240) Hero is SB with A♣ 7♥
7 players fold, Hero raises to 250, BB calls 150

Flop: (590) 4♣ 3♣ Q♣ (2 players)
Hero bets 183, BB calls 183

Turn: (956) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero bets 296, BB calls 296

River: (1,548) K♥ (2 players)
Hero ?


Hand no. 2 :

BB has 12 hands played: VPIP 8 PFR 8

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (2 ante) - 8 players

UTG: 1,996 (100 bb)
UTG+1: 1,996 (100 bb)
MP: 1,936 (97 bb)
MP+1: 2,042 (102 bb)
CO (Hero): 1,986 (99 bb)
BU: 1,966 (98 bb)
SB: 2,082 (104 bb)
BB: 1,996 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: (46) Hero is CO with 7♣ T♣
4 players fold, Hero raises to 80, 2 players fold, BB calls 60

Flop: (186) A♥ J♠ 4♦ (2 players)
BB bets 60, Hero raises to 210, BB calls 150

Turn: (606) 3♥ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (606) 6♠ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

On the flop I decided to raise and represent an A. Is betting here from my part an option?

Did not see results replaying hand street by street
Preflop unless this is a FT your sizing is too small getting folds is fine here so 3.5x is more effective
Flop We flop the flush draw we want to be thinking about range advantage? Nut advantage? then do we check or lead-sizing?-
If we check do we check raise-dependent on V bet sizing-

We lead small- because we are going to do what if raised or called? Small bets invite wide range calls is that what we want in this spot?

We get called we now have to decide do we keep the pot small by checking or block betting or do we rep AA with the club and bet larger to shove river- Are we targeting a Q to fold?

We bet 33% why? What is the plan now- If we had AA with the club would we bet 33%? If we had AQ no club would we bet 33%- What folds on turn to this sizing? If not much folds then when we make this bet we already know we are shoving most rivers.

River we small bet why? We are not targeting enough of their range with this sizing- did we get worse to fold yes but not a Q vs a Q we just gave them 480 chips -
We want to think about what better hands the river bluff is targeting?

The K is a terrible runout for us by the way as Kcx? is top of range for the V playing this way they will chase with Jcx? as well but the jack is a much better hand for us to get to fold with a river bluff.

 

[Joe]

The first hand is a preferable spot to bluff than the second in my opinion.

Very much agree with eetenor’s comments about the bet sizing, that was exactly what I was going to mention and ask about.

What is the logic behind raising 2.5x blind Vs blind from the S.B. with A7o but 4x from the C.O. with T7s..?

One of the most important aspects about bluffing is that our line tells a convincing, believable story.

Our chosen action and bet-sizing pre-flop, and on each street, are crucial in this respect.

I’m not saying your opening and bet sizes are wrong - people prefer different sizes - but I am interested in your reasoning behind the choices.

 

[300HPGOD]

Hand 1: Its a spot where if we were shallower I would just get it in pre with Ax heads up but 22 BBs is too deep for that so I would raise as you did and see if we can take it down. They call which I am not thrilled with but we do have Ax so Im not that worried. Flop is a great flop and at that point I would tell myself my plans are not to fold here with only starting the hand at 22 BBs. I like check jamming here instead of betting out small. Small bet here kind of just lets villain know what hand you have (unless you play your made flushes like this and villain knows that) and if you are doing this to induce a raise so that you can then jam over that I'm okay with it but I like check jamming better than that route. One reason would be if I check and villain checks behind I am still happy about it cause I get to see a free turn and already have the Ace high showdown value. So bluff in the hand... yes. The way you did it... no but it did work being results O but I still think there is a better way of doing it. Your way (with larger bet sizings than what you used) I like if were deeper.

Hand 2: I dont get this one from the start. We 4x open from the cutoff with 107 suited. Are we doing this to try to get folds from behind villains? If they are tight and fold a lot then we could open for less and get the same result and lose less should we be 3 bet. So for whatever reason you are opening this (and there are some valid reasons depending on those behind you) I think 3x open is enough to accomplish your task. If 3x open is not enouhg based on the players behind then you probably dont want to be opening 107 suited here at all.

On the flop we get donk led which can mean a lot things. You raise here basically reping the ace which I think is fine but then the turn comes another heart and we check. Why would we check there on the turn if we just painted a picture that we have an ace? Would any Ax there ever check that turn since it cant be Ax of hearts? I dont think it would and if villain is thinking at all they would be like "this makes no sense". So now going to the river the villain should know you dont have a lot since what would you check so if they were smart they would check every river to you and let you blast off since if you are weak then what bet would you call should they make one. I point this out because on these spots where you play this way you cant count villains check as weakness. They already called a raise on the flop and donk led so they have a little something and you have 10 high. You would have to choose here if you can bet and make them fold Jx (if thats what they have cause their Ax aint folding here) and I dont think the way you played the hand that they even fold Jx since again, your check on the turn was out of place. So here this is a give up spot imo and if you were going to really bluff on this hand you needed to fire on the turn.

 

[mariussica88]

I’m not saying your opening and bet sizes are wrong - people prefer different sizes - but I am interested in your reasoning behind the choices.

In the hand A7o I raise 2.5x because I had a stack of 22BB, and in the hand with 107s I raised more since it's the start of level 1 and we all have around 100BB.

 

[fundiver199]

Hand 1 A7o

Preflop
I prefer to limp in this situation. The opponent seem to be a good LAG, and he is going to attack you a lot, if you raise small. Are you willing to call off a jam for 22 bigs with A7 offsuit? I would not be excited about that, and therefore I would not open the door for him to make this play. When you raise small here, you are essentially saying to him "hey I think, you are really bad and weak, so I can get away with raising garbage out of position, and you will never play back at me". Its different, if stacks were reversed, because then you are the one, who can put his tournament life at risk rathre than the opposite. My plan after limping would be to limp-jam against someone, whom I think will attack my limp by raising garbage.

Flop and turn
Seems fine to me to bet with the nut flushdraw.

River
The K is a good scare card, and this is an opponent type, who should be able to find some folds, if you empty the barrel and jam the river. I also dont think, you have much showdown value, since this kind of player is likely not hanging on with a bad flushdraw, which you beat. Its different, if he was a fish, because a fish is more likely to call you down with bottom pair, and a fish is also more likely to check back a hand like JT with a club, which you actually beat. So against a reg like this good spot to bluff, but against a fish just check-fold.

Hand 2 T7s

Preflop
If you are going to open to 4BB, you need to use a tighther range, and T7s from CO is then just a fold. If you use a smaller sizing of up to 3BB, its still marginal but ok to open this hand.

Flop
The small donk bet is weak, so there can be some merit to raising this as a bluff. You do have a really bad hand though. When you are bluffing, its nice to have even just a little bit of something like a gutshot or even a BDFD. This is the only combo of T7s, which did not flop a BDFD, so you could hardly have picked a worse hand to start a bluff. And for that reason I just fold here. Even to small sizing its always allowed to fold the absolute worst hands in your range.

Turn
I would not have run this bluff on the flop, and as played its fine to just give up instead of throwing good chips after bad.

River
Him checking again does somewhat weaken his range, but even something as strong as top pair can reasonably check, because you raised the flop, which makes your range polarized. So if he has a hand like A5, it makes sense for him to check-call and try to catch a bluff. You also dont represent anything, if you bet now, so no this is not a good spot for a bluff.

 

[Joe]

In the hand A7o I raise 2.5x because I had a stack of 22BB, and in the hand with 107s I raised more since it's the start of level 1 and we all have around 100BB.

That’s interesting… Is that how you generally select your opening/bet sizes? Based on your total stack?

 

[mariussica88]

That’s interesting… Is that how you generally select your opening/bet sizes? Based on your total stack?

Sometimes, but not always. It depends of what tournament I play, how are the tables that I'm playing at, the type of format, the type of players I raise against, but at the starting levels I tend to raise bigger (4x, 3.5x, 3x,) then on later stages (2x, 2.5x, and sometimes 3x)


I do believe that is a mistake to open always 2x on every tournament especially at micro/small stakes where players have little knowledge of poker.

 

[Joe]

Sometimes, but not always. It depends of what tournament I play, how are the tables that I'm playing at, the type of format, the type of players I raise against, but at the starting levels I tend to raise bigger (4x, 3.5x, 3x,) then on later stages (2x, 2.5x, and sometimes 3x)


I do believe that is a mistake to open always 2x on every tournament especially at micro/small stakes where players have little knowledge of poker.

Personally I like to always size my opening bet based on my seat/position…

UTG - 2x
Middle positions - 2.5x
Button - 3x
SB - 3x or 4x

For me this technique has served me well because it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to garner any information about my hand strength because the opens are always the same with all holdings.

Late in tourneys I might drop opens down to 2x when the blinds are high enough.

This is off topic with regards to bluffing, sorry about that.

Was just intrigued by your open sizes!

 

[mariussica88]

Personally I like to always size my opening bet based on my seat/position…

UTG - 2x
Middle positions - 2.5x
Button - 3x
SB - 3x or 4x

For me this technique has served me well because it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to garner any information about my hand strength because the opens are always the same with all holdings.

Late in tourneys I might drop opens down to 2x when the blinds are high enough.

This is off topic with regards to bluffing, sorry about that.

Was just intrigued by your open sizes!

Here is one example from the hand that we played at the same table in yesterdays CC freeroll. When this deep and you open just 2.5x pre and also a freeroll you get called by multiple players, so your hands is pretty much a gamble. This is one of the reasons that I like to raise big when we are at the start of the tournament and I like my hand.

Maybe the way I think for some other players is wrong (and I would like to hear there opinions), but for me it works. For example here in this hand I would raise at least 5x,6x if I would decide to enter this hand.

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (2 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

marius_salca (UTG): 1,992 (100 bb)
Tr4cid (UTG+1): 1,992 (100 bb)
nnnccc111 (MP): 1,952 (98 bb)
Atararo14 (MP+1): 2,048 (102 bb)
tuffaha13 (LP): 2,058 (103 bb)
Sunset_4_U (CO): 2,030 (102 bb)
Rony Mota (BU): 1,962 (98 bb)
arshuns (SB): 1,972 (99 bb)
Dino_7TM (BB): 1,992 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: (48) Hero (marius_salca) is UTG with 3♠ 8♥
marius_salca (UTG) folds, Tr4cid (UTG+1) raises to 50, nnnccc111 (MP) calls 50, Atararo14 (MP+1) calls 50, tuffaha13 (LP) calls 50, Sunset_4_U (CO) calls 50, 2 players fold, Dino_7TM (BB) calls 30

Flop: (328) 2♦ 7♥ 3♦ (6 players)
Dino_7TM (BB) checks, Tr4cid (UTG+1) bets 164, 2 players fold, tuffaha13 (LP) calls 164, Sunset_4_U (CO) calls 164, Dino_7TM (BB) calls 164

Turn: (984) K♦ (4 players)
Dino_7TM (BB) checks, Tr4cid (UTG+1) checks, tuffaha13 (LP) checks, Sunset_4_U (CO) checks

River: (984) 4♦ (4 players)
Dino_7TM (BB) checks, Tr4cid (UTG+1) checks, tuffaha13 (LP) checks, Sunset_4_U (CO) checks

Total pot: 984

Showdown:
Tr4cid (UTG+1) shows 5♥ A♥ (a straight, Ace to Five)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 33%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 15%, River: 100%)

Dino_7TM (BB) shows 8♣ 3♣ (a pair of Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 18%, Turn: 13%, River: 0%)

tuffaha13 (LP) mucks K♠ 4♣ (two pair, Kings and Fours)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 10%, Turn: 60%, River: 0%)

Sunset_4_U (CO) mucks T♠ 7♠ (a pair of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 28%, Flop: 45%, Turn: 13%, River: 0%)

Tr4cid (UTG+1) wins 984

 

[Joe]

Here is one example from the hand that we played at the same table in yesterdays CC freeroll. When this deep and you open just 2.5x pre and also a freeroll you get called by multiple players, so your hands is pretty much a gamble. This is one of the reasons that I like to raise big when we are at the start of the tournament and I like my hand.

Maybe the way I think for some other players is wrong (and I would like to hear there opinions), but for me it works. For example here in this hand I would raise at least 5x,6x if I would decide to enter this hand.

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (2 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

marius_salca (UTG): 1,992 (100 bb)
Tr4cid (UTG+1): 1,992 (100 bb)
nnnccc111 (MP): 1,952 (98 bb)
Atararo14 (MP+1): 2,048 (102 bb)
tuffaha13 (LP): 2,058 (103 bb)
Sunset_4_U (CO): 2,030 (102 bb)
Rony Mota (BU): 1,962 (98 bb)
arshuns (SB): 1,972 (99 bb)
Dino_7TM (BB): 1,992 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: (48) Hero (marius_salca) is UTG with 3♠ 8♥
marius_salca (UTG) folds, Tr4cid (UTG+1) raises to 50, nnnccc111 (MP) calls 50, Atararo14 (MP+1) calls 50, tuffaha13 (LP) calls 50, Sunset_4_U (CO) calls 50, 2 players fold, Dino_7TM (BB) calls 30

Flop: (328) 2♦ 7♥ 3♦ (6 players)
Dino_7TM (BB) checks, Tr4cid (UTG+1) bets 164, 2 players fold, tuffaha13 (LP) calls 164, Sunset_4_U (CO) calls 164, Dino_7TM (BB) calls 164

Turn: (984) K♦ (4 players)
Dino_7TM (BB) checks, Tr4cid (UTG+1) checks, tuffaha13 (LP) checks, Sunset_4_U (CO) checks

River: (984) 4♦ (4 players)
Dino_7TM (BB) checks, Tr4cid (UTG+1) checks, tuffaha13 (LP) checks, Sunset_4_U (CO) checks

Total pot: 984

Showdown:
Tr4cid (UTG+1) shows 5♥ A♥ (a straight, Ace to Five)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 33%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 15%, River: 100%)

Dino_7TM (BB) shows 8♣ 3♣ (a pair of Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 18%, Turn: 13%, River: 0%)

tuffaha13 (LP) mucks K♠ 4♣ (two pair, Kings and Fours)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 10%, Turn: 60%, River: 0%)

Sunset_4_U (CO) mucks T♠ 7♠ (a pair of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 28%, Flop: 45%, Turn: 13%, River: 0%)

Tr4cid (UTG+1) wins 984

Thanks for reminding me of that hand, yesterday was a relatively fast washout if I recall so it’s nice to know I won at least one pot! ^^

The thing is, if you raise more with good hands and less with other hands, it signals your hand strength.

If you just want to always raise more with your all your range that’s personal choice and fine as far as I’m concerned but my preference for open sizing is based on position.

For me, in most M.T.T. freezeouts, I won’t be opening by firing off 10% of my starting stack preflop within the first few hands… With any of my range! 😄

However I do not deny that of all the choices available, it is one of them.

 

[Vallet]

I would first think about which hand I'm drawing before bluffing on the river. In my opinion, these are not good places.
The first hand. You made small bets all the streets, the size of which is slightly less than 1/3. The size of the pot and the size of your stack becomes approximately the same. The King of hearts comes to the river. If you place a bet the size of half a pot, you will be left with a short stack in case of defeat. If you push, you make it clear to the opponent that you have always had the king of clubs. But this card is just right for the player on the big blind, who probably also wanted to catch a high flush. I would bet a bluff on the river in the case of, for example, deuces or small cards. Because all the streets I was portraying the queen with a weak kicker.
The second hand. The main action is your raising on the flop. You have checked your opponent for hitting the board. What will the six of spades give on the river ? Absolutely nothing. Therefore, bluffing is even less likely than in the first hand.