$1.05 NL HE MTT: Bottom end of a straight

[tzuriel]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

1.05

Currency

$

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

I have a decent chip lead on this table but I don't want to raise A6 off into 3 limpers so I think checking is best pre. Flop is pretty decent but I am still cautious against 3 players so I check and plan to call any smallish bet. 3 head to the turn after BTN leads for 5bb. T on the Turn and BTN shoves. I would much rather have seen the 5. This shove just feels like 9J, TJ, 8J or some other Jx so I folded. I didn't want to call off half my stack with the dumb end of the straight. Player is pretty loose but I don't think he will bluff too often here.

What do you think was the best play here?

NL Holdem $0.95+$0.10 (1000.00BB)
MP (51BBs)
HJ (41.2BBs)
CO (55.6BBs)
BTN (65.2BBs) [VPIP: 42.3% | PFR: 11.5% | AGG: 16.1% | Hands: 26]
SB (40.3BBs) [VPIP: 28.2% | PFR: 12.8% | AGG: 20% | Hands: 40]
HERO (102.6BBs)
UTG (50BBs)
EP (68.3BBs) [VPIP: 22.7% | PFR: 13.6% | AGG: 40% | Hands: 22]

Dealt to Hero: A♥ 6♦

UTG Folds, EP Calls 1BBs, MP Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Calls 1BBs, SB Calls 0.5BBs, HERO Checks

Hero SPR on Flop: [7.76 effective]
Flop (5BBs): 8♠ 9♥ 7♣
SB Checks, HERO Checks, EP Checks, BTN Bets 5BBs (Rem. Stack: 59.1BBs), SB Calls 5BBs (Rem. Stack: 34.1BBs), HERO Calls 5BBs (Rem. Stack: 96.5BBs), EP Folds

Turn (20.2BBs): 8♠ 9♥ 7♣ T♠
SB Checks, HERO Checks, BTN Bets 59.1BBs (allin), SB Folds, HERO Folds

Spoiler

BTN wins: 20.2BBs

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I would also take a free flop with this hand. I would only isolate for value, which mean something like AJ+ maybe AT+

Flop
I would just fold right now. You are facing a full pot sized bet, and you have a very bad draw. As you discovered on the turn, a T will give any hand with a J a better straight, and someone could easily have a straight already, in which case you are drawing dead or at best drawing to a chop.

Turn
Easy fold.

 

[tzuriel]

Flop
I would just fold right now. You are facing a full pot sized bet, and you have a very bad draw. As you discovered on the turn, a T will give any hand with a J a better straight, and someone could easily have a straight already, in which case you are drawing dead or at best drawing to a chop.

Even with 4:1 odds? It seemed too tight to fold to one bet but I hear your logic.

 

[fundiver199]

Even with 4:1 odds? It seemed too tight to fold to one bet but I hear your logic.

You were actually only getting 3:1 with the pot being 15 and 5 more for you to call. You need 25% equity to break even, and you dont have that with such a bad draw against two opponents. You also dont always get to see both cards. If someone bomb the turn, you need to fold, when you missed. And as in this case even when the second best card for your hand came. Finally there is the issue of reverse implied odds. Even if a 5 comes, you might still end up losing an enormous pot to someone with JT, who had you drawing dead on the flop. Learning to not chase after bad draws is going to give you a big edge in the micros

 

[eetenor]

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

I have a decent chip lead on this table but I don't want to raise A6 off into 3 limpers so I think checking is best pre. Flop is pretty decent but I am still cautious against 3 players so I check and plan to call any smallish bet. 3 head to the turn after BTN leads for 5bb. T on the Turn and BTN shoves. I would much rather have seen the 5. This shove just feels like 9J, TJ, 8J or some other Jx so I folded. I didn't want to call off half my stack with the dumb end of the straight. Player is pretty loose but I don't think he will bluff too often here.

What do you think was the best play here?

NL Holdem $0.95+$0.10 (1000.00BB)
MP (51BBs)
HJ (41.2BBs)
CO (55.6BBs)
BTN (65.2BBs) [VPIP: 42.3% | PFR: 11.5% | AGG: 16.1% | Hands: 26]
SB (40.3BBs) [VPIP: 28.2% | PFR: 12.8% | AGG: 20% | Hands: 40]
HERO (102.6BBs)
UTG (50BBs)
EP (68.3BBs) [VPIP: 22.7% | PFR: 13.6% | AGG: 40% | Hands: 22]

Dealt to Hero: A♥ 6♦

UTG Folds, EP Calls 1BBs, MP Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Calls 1BBs, SB Calls 0.5BBs, HERO Checks

Hero SPR on Flop: [7.76 effective]
Flop (5BBs): 8♠ 9♥ 7♣
SB Checks, HERO Checks, EP Checks, BTN Bets 5BBs (Rem. Stack: 59.1BBs), SB Calls 5BBs (Rem. Stack: 34.1BBs), HERO Calls 5BBs (Rem. Stack: 96.5BBs), EP Folds

Turn (20.2BBs): 8♠ 9♥ 7♣ T♠
SB Checks, HERO Checks, BTN Bets 59.1BBs (allin), SB Folds, HERO Folds

Spoiler

BTN wins: 20.2BBs

Ok so we want to be thinking about the why of this bet sizing by Villain- why would V shove a straight on the turn? Are they really targeting your 6? The flop bet could be anything but the turn sizing makes 0 sense with a Jx hand Why would they shove QJ? Would they shove QT? a set? 2 pair?
Folding is fine but is not the 100% of the time play- We can also fold the flop- as we most often have a draw to a five only multiway OOP and can already be dead on the flop or be facing very big bets like this one on turn- I would prefer to call with back door flush outs on flop

 

[eetenor]

You were actually only getting 3:1 with the pot being 15 and 5 more for you to call. You need 25% equity to break even, and you dont have that with such a bad draw against two opponents. You also dont always get to see both cards. If someone bomb the turn, you need to fold, when you missed. And as in this case even when the second best card for your hand came. Finally there is the issue of reverse implied odds. Even if a 5 comes, you might still end up losing an enormous pot to someone with JT, who had you drawing dead on the flop. Learning to not chase after bad draws is going to give you a big edge in the micros

Fundiver makes a great point here----You also dont always get to see both cards---When we are calculating our equity for calling we want to think about "full equity realization" if on a fictional flop we have 20% equity but we can only realize that by getting to the river and we will be folding turns- due to bet sizing runouts etc we want to estimate how often we fold turns- if say we fold turns 1-5 that means our full equity reduces by 20% - 20% of 20% equals 4% so our situational equity is only 16% for our holding not 20% in my example--
this spot you are in is that type of spot- so we would want to estimate our situational equity not raw equity to decide to call or not on the flop

Situational equity is the reason why we play more hands IP we are able to realize more situational equity that way

 

[puzzlefish]

I'm in agreement with the others about not chasing bad draws and the importance of being able to recognize them on different types of boards.

 

[fundiver199]

Ok so we want to be thinking about the why of this bet sizing by Villain- why would V shove a straight on the turn? Are they really targeting your 6? The flop bet could be anything but the turn sizing makes 0 sense with a Jx hand Why would they shove QJ? Would they shove QT? a set? 2 pair? Folding is fine but is not the 100% of the time play

I agree, that the turn overbet jam makes no sense with any hand. But we still need to put the Villain on a range of course. This is someone, who is passive preflop with the limp and wide gap between VPIP and PFR, and now they are extremely aggressive postflop. This is also a very low buyin, where there might be more complete beginners, who only think about their hand rather than the best way to get paid. So the thought process could be something like "LOL I have the nuts, I am all-in". I think, this is more likely than him doing something totally crazy like turning two pair into a bluff trying to get a 6 to fold.

We can also fold the flop- as we most often have a draw to a five only multiway OOP

And even when we hit, we might end up winning only half the pot. Maybe BTN has two pair, and SB has a hand like 86, 76 or 66. This will not be uncommon, when we are drawing to a 1-liner, and its something to also take into consideration especially multiway.

I would prefer to call with back door flush outs on flop

A BDFD would surely help, but for me it would still be a fold to a full pot sized bet. Not only does that sizing give us worse odds to draw, it also increase the risk, we will be facing a large turn bet, we cant call.

 

[dallam]

This hand shares some similarities with your latest posted hand, the 88 one. ( https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-hand-analysis-51/2-50-nl-he-mtt-interesting-517532/ )

First of all you having once again a significant stack difference into the whole table. And this can be good once, if you use it the way it has to be used. I personally wouldn't pressure myself into some big pots pre with mediocrate hands like the 88 and letting more of your range to slowplay or outplay not on a bigger heat.
The other similarity is that both times opponent represented stronger combinations you already have, and you chased them on a visible dead party, knowing time to time you may arrive there as a winner. But on such a big flop domination like both cases, it were also predictable that the pot will be only growing which not helping your case.

To return to this hand only, I don't think that's a decent flop at all, it hits the limpers pretty well, big chance already that someone hit the top or bottom straight. And facing with a pot bet, even opp has two pairs or top pair and a straight-draw, you are in very bad shape, not mentioning that you are out of position.

So in my opinion the main idea is you could think about is that if you are playing a small pot, or multiway pot etc. you can actually can get away easily (no pumped up 88's pre, no bottom straight draws chasing); talk into yourself those cheap folds especially with these big stacks you have, and take your time to picking up your spots pre-postflop way better.

 

[fundiver199]

So in my opinion the main idea is you could think about is that if you are playing a small pot, or multiway pot etc. you can actually can get away easily (no pumped up 88's pre, no bottom straight draws chasing); talk into yourself those cheap folds especially with these big stacks you have, and take your time to picking up your spots pre-postflop way better.

Also this was a limped pot, and hero got a free look on the flop, so he had nothing invested in the hand yet. If MP had raised to say 2,5BB and gotten two callers, then I am not defending A6, because the hand is just really bad and offer a lot of reverse implied odds. And when we have a hand, we would not have defended pre to a raise, why should we continue, just because they let us see the flop, and we caught a very small piece of it? There is no shame in just getting out and letting the other goofballs do, whatever they want to do.

This also goes for situations, where for instance we flop top pair with 83o on a board like 874 2-tone and face strong action like this. Some people will talk themselfes into calling, because "LOL I cant fold top pair to just one bet". But if we look at the board and the situation, how are we ever going to win here? There are very few turn cards, we like, and there are multible ways for us to be beat already. It cool to get a free look at the flop, but its also really important, that we dont allow ourselfes to get sucked into situations, where we budge that free play by making bad decisions with bad hands postflop.