$0.55 NLHE MTT Turbo: Interesting Spot in the Hot 0.55

[olliejjc16]

Thought this was an interesting spot that could be worth discussion. UTG+1 was 62/26 MP2 was 32/3 and SB was 26/15. Shoved to maybe get called by weaker as all seemed fishy, calling preflop light but would it have been better to 3 Bet or even flat it?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.55 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds 15 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

UTG+1 (t5,131)
MP1 (t8,300)
MP2 (t5,803)
MP3 (t2,630)
CO (t7,225)
Button (t1,925)
SB (t6,446)
Hero (BB) (t5,090)
UTG (t3,015)

Hero's M: 16.16

Preflop: Hero is BB with J

, J

1 fold, UTG+1 bets t360, 1 fold, MP2 calls t360, 3 folds, SB calls t300, Hero raises to t5,075 (All-In), 3 folds

Total pot: t1,575

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show J

, J

.

 

[BvBrMTW]

I don't like shoving a 3bb raise to 40bb's, kindof never.
Flatting is bad tho because you're oop, just 3-bet and probably gii IF they 4-bet you, which they probably wouldn't given the results, anyway,
Betting big against donks is good, but bad players are usually very scared of all ins.

 

[olliejjc16]

ya sounds like good advice, looking back over the hand i prefer the 3bet aswell. I shoved because a lot of the time in small stakes like this I've noticed players have a hard time folding their small pairs, A rag etc but a 3bet would probably have gotten more value from their weaker hands

 

[BvBrMTW]

Yes they definetly do have a hard time folding them, but by 3-betting smaller you give them even less of a reason to fold

 

[RamdeeBen]

Easy shove given stats + the callers behind and a 50cent tournament u will always get called by a lot worse.

 

[BvBrMTW]

u will always get called by a lot worse.

Obviously he didn't.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Obviously he didn't.

He's posting results..which are irrelevant.

Don't look at results in hand histories by the way for future reference , as it gives you a more biased opinion.

Fact of the matter is, given stats, stack sizes and the 99% fish ratio you WILL get called by worse a very high percentage of the time.

 

[olliejjc16]

ya sorry didnt mean to include results, i definitely think arguments can be made for both sides though its an interesting spot!

 

[BvBrMTW]

He's posting results..which are irrelevant.

Don't look at results in hand histories by the way for future reference , as it gives you a more biased opinion.

Fact of the matter is, given stats, stack sizes and the 99% fish ratio you WILL get called by worse a very high percentage of the time.

Nah you really won't , only by 88+ honestly.

The tournament is already 40 mins in, and they are both at a decent stack, this means they aren't complete spew-tards.

Sure you'll get called by worse eventually, but also by better,\
3-betting is WAY better, by shoving 40bb's you really narrow his range, and I think most hands that call you here will have you beat, even with their stats.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Nah you really won't , only by 88+ honestly.

The tournament is already 40 mins in, and they are both at a decent stack, this means they aren't complete spew-tards.

Sure you'll get called by worse eventually, but also by better,\
3-betting is WAY better, by shoving 40bb's you really narrow his range, and I think most hands that call you here will have you beat, even with their stats.

No; really you WILL take my word for it lol.


If you really think they wont; then either

A: you're playing way to tightly or B; these games are full of sharks these days. (lol)


Not played a 55c MTT for a while; but from past experiences and successes in these games, I could get people stacking 50+BB with 22/Ax/connectors ecetc and worse quite regularly, literally nearly 100% of their range.

The field is literally close to 100% fish filled, calling half their stack to see flops isn't uncommon - calling jams with 5,6suited isn't uncommon.


Shoving 40bb, to an UTG+1 raise with 2 callers behind is not only profitable, but likely the best play the given circumstances. If they happen to be lucky enough to turn over QQ+ then so be it; but you will be surprised.

 

[BvBrMTW]

No; really you WILL take my word for it lol.


If you really think they wont; then either

A: you're playing way to tightly or B; these games are full of sharks these days. (lol)


Not played a 55c MTT for a while; but from past experiences and successes in these games, I could get people stacking 50+BB with 22/Ax/connectors ecetc and worse quite regularly, literally nearly 100% of their range.

The field is literally close to 100% fish filled, calling half their stack to see flops isn't uncommon - calling jams with 5,6suited isn't uncommon.
btw; you are highly over exaggerating, i've also played them, and there are a lot of idiots, but again, these guys are already in for a bit, and their stats arent really maniac-like.


Shoving 40bb, to an UTG+1 raise with 2 callers behind is not only profitable, but likely the best playing the given circumstances. If they happen to be lucky enough to turn over QQ+ then so be it; but you will be surprised.

Let me put it in another way:
WHY would you shove 40bb's, if you could potentially get AT least the same amount out of just 3-betting? that way you are SURE you get them involved in the pot.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Let me put it in another way:
WHY would you shove 40bb's, if you could potentially get AT least the same amount out of just 3-betting? that way you are SURE you get them involved in the pot.

There is already 1600 chips in the middle pre flop, which represents 25% of our stack.

We have 1 fish who opens and 2 fish who call behind. Given their high VPIP rates for all players; there is a very good chance we get at least one caller + the fact JJ multiway is going to play awfully bad OOP.

If one has A,T+, or any pair we very likely get called pre regardless if we 3bet smaller or shove.


Don't get me wrong; I don't mind 3betting smaller, but as stated, given stats + this particular tournament, I think shoving pre flop is better and are we really ever gonna fold JJ pre flop regardless with 40bb given this tournament?

Also; you mention that "we only get called by better" < < So you actually plan on 3bet folding pre flop with JJ 40bb ?

 

[BvBrMTW]

There is already 1600 chips in the middle pre flop, which represents 25% of our stack.

We have 1 fish who opens and 2 fish who call behind. Given their high VPIP rates for all players; there is a very good chance we get at least once caller.

If one has A,T+, or any pair we very likely get called pre regardless if we 3bet smaller or shove.

The chance is ALWAYS bigger when you raise smaller, and the results prove it, there WILL be times when they all fold to an allin, but I doubt they'd ever fold to a ~1200 raise.

 

[RamdeeBen]

The chance is ALWAYS bigger when you raise smaller, and the results prove it, there WILL be times when they all fold to an allin, but I doubt they'd ever fold to a ~1200 raise.

Of course there will, that will be the case in any tournament or spot that arises.

However, looking at all the facts OP has given & this particular tournament in general, shoving is going to be the best play here rather than just raising.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Totally agree with RamJam on this hand!
(also the pot represents 30% of our stack, get it in and 'very often' you'll be getting called by worse, especially in a 50cent MTT).

Also, I'm not sure how the fact that villains having chips 40mins. into a tourney makes them not spewtards? I don't see any correlation here at all.

 

[olliejjc16]

i think both are valid options, there's nothing wrong with a 3bet here either to induce action but a shove is also good, kind of leaning towards shove again though since its a turbo and you need to accumulate chips quickly to survive, so a call here if i get one could give me a good chance of doubling up! thanks for all the advice so far!

 

[Aleksei]

Let me put it in another way:
WHY would you shove 40bb's, if you could potentially get AT least the same amount out of just 3-betting? that way you are SURE you get them involved in the pot.

Dude.

1) We are facing three stations, with
2) a hand that has virtually no redraws thus plays AWFUL postflop/multiway, which
3) we will never fold to a shove vs Villain's range, in
4) a tournament setting, which means in order to stay alive we need to capitalize on fold equity, which means taking the initiative (calling a shove gives us one way to win money, shoving gives us two).

With 1/4 of our stack in pot and a strong hand that plays well HU but not multiway, shoving is a no-brainer.

 

[BvBrMTW]

Woops, I completely forgot about fold equity, sorry I'm just a donk heh.
But yea You guys are right in that case,