$0.55 NLHE MTT: KK vs 555, did I play badly?

[jadaminato]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 33/17/0.3

Hi there! It was a 0.55 buy-in tournament, and there were 50 players left over 2000 who had started. I am in 4th place and I receive KK. I open raise 3 blinds and the small blind pays me. The flop comes 2t-Js-5s. I put a bet of the pot -size thinking that he could has flush projects and it pays me. The turn comes a Qt, opening another flush project. The stack of chips that I had left was half the size of the pot so I go all-in. He pays me and shows a couple of 5, completing the third. Should I have played slow and wait to see what he was doing? The statistics I had of him said that he was loose but did not have enough hands to know.
I don't mind losing, I just want to know if I played correctly and if not, what would be the best way

 

[ssbn743]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 33/17/0.3

Hi there! It was a 0.55 buy-in tournament, and there were 50 players left over 2000 who had started. I am in 4th place and I receive KK. I open raise 3 blinds and the small blind pays me. The flop comes 2t-Js-5s. I put a bet of the pot -size thinking that he could has flush projects and it pays me. The turn comes a Qt, opening another flush project. The stack of chips that I had left was half the size of the pot so I go all-in. He pays me and shows a couple of 5, completing the third. Should I have played slow and wait to see what he was doing? The statistics I had of him said that he was loose but did not have enough hands to know.
I don't mind losing, I just want to know if I played correctly and if not, what would be the best way

All right, well, there’s some crucial information left out of this write-up.

First, you’re ITM? And probably doesn’t matter a great deal, but what kinds of jumps are we talking about here – are there major ICM concerns in play?

- Most importantly, what position were you in?
- You say you were in 4th place – meaning 4th chip lead?
- Did anyone at your table have you covered?
- I understand you opened to 3x, but blind levels are crucial - what are they?
- Was this BBA format, or traditional ante, or no ante?
- What’s your stack size?
- What’s villains’ stack size?

Analysis, based on the information you’ve provided:

Pre
- A 3x open is fine, but probably a little big at this stage.
- Depends on our own stack depth and the players we face
- The shorter stacks get, the less we can risk with our open sizes
- However, we need to be careful, especially in BBA structures, not to give too good a price to the BB

Flop
- Try not to think of it in terms of “he pays me” – he doesn’t know what you have, if he did, he probably would have folded
- His call is very likely a bad call from the SB
- He absolutely could have the flush draw, but he could have a lot of other things as well
- This is where stack sizes are insanely important – I really don’t know if a pot bet is good or not. My guess, at this stage, is that’s it’s pretty unnecessary

Turn
- OK, now you’re saying a ½ pot bet puts you all in – did you mean you were 4th stack at your table?

There’s too much non-information to continue with this. However, when you have a hand as strong as KK, especially against the blinds, it can never be wrong to bet – you’re going 3-streets here. In other words, “playing slow” as you suggest is almost never correct. Give me some more information and I’ll go deeper.

 

[Guernica1974]

blinds

seems like you are short stacked preflop - KK just go allin not worth semi limp your hands. also sounds like blinds so big its ok to get bb and sb

preferable you push out players and if you have KK hope for a player having a smaller pocket pair calls atleast avoid those random calls just to see

 

[Guernica1974]

good measure

in general good to keep track of table info and general info

table info: your pos, other players short stacked, big and middle stacks and pos
blinds compared to stacksize on table

general info: average stacksize, blinds/blindstruture, how many players left and the payout structure

typically two intervalls you need to focus on are "in the money" and final table - typically being just outside final table pays just a little more than just itm, hence being short stacked itm you dont have a lot of opportunities and big stacks will typically target you, since they can afford to loose or take you out and being one closer to the final table

 

[jadaminato]

All right, well, there’s some crucial information left out of this write-up.

First, you’re ITM? And probably doesn’t matter a great deal, but what kinds of jumps are we talking about here – are there major ICM concerns in play?

- Most importantly, what position were you in?
- You say you were in 4th place – meaning 4th chip lead?
- Did anyone at your table have you covered?
- I understand you opened to 3x, but blind levels are crucial - what are they?
- Was this BBA format, or traditional ante, or no ante?
- What’s your stack size?
- What’s villains’ stack size?

Analysis, based on the information you’ve provided:

Pre
- A 3x open is fine, but probably a little big at this stage.
- Depends on our own stack depth and the players we face
- The shorter stacks get, the less we can risk with our open sizes
- However, we need to be careful, especially in BBA structures, not to give too good a price to the BB

Flop
- Try not to think of it in terms of “he pays me” – he doesn’t know what you have, if he did, he probably would have folded
- His call is very likely a bad call from the SB
- He absolutely could have the flush draw, but he could have a lot of other things as well
- This is where stack sizes are insanely important – I really don’t know if a pot bet is good or not. My guess, at this stage, is that’s it’s pretty unnecessary

Turn
- OK, now you’re saying a ½ pot bet puts you all in – did you mean you were 4th stack at your table?

There’s too much non-information to continue with this. However, when you have a hand as strong as KK, especially against the blinds, it can never be wrong to bet – you’re going 3-streets here. In other words, “playing slow” as you suggest is almost never correct. Give me some more information and I’ll go deeper.

pokerstars Hand #203362914753: Tournament #2669369284, $0.49+$0.06 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXX (4000/8000) - 2019/08/16 15:00:46 CT [2019/08/16 16:00:46 ET]
Table '2669369284 83' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: ivan3589 (146798 in chips)
Seat 2: niffty x (242370 in chips)
Seat 3: leandroboiad (471876 in chips)
Seat 4: roquelinn (VILLAIN) (339615 in chips) SB
Seat 5: MoneyLuckAlw (117906 in chips)
Seat 6: kokiluki (44213 in chips)
Seat 7: inthedollars (120110 in chips)
Seat 8: trellamenos3 (336482 in chips)
Seat 9: Kume23 (HERO) (334656 in chips) MP1
ivan3589: posts the ante 1000
niffty x: posts the ante 1000
leandroboiad: posts the ante 1000
roquelinn: posts the ante 1000
MoneyLuckAlw: posts the ante 1000
kokiluki: posts the ante 1000
inthedollars: posts the ante 1000
trellamenos3: posts the ante 1000
Kume23: posts the ante 1000
roquelinn: posts small blind 4000
MoneyLuckAlw: posts big blind 8000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kume23 [Kh Kc]
kokiluki: folds
inthedollars: folds
trellamenos3: folds
Kume23: raises 16000 to 24000
ivan3589: folds
niffty x: folds
leandroboiad: folds
roquelinn: calls 20000
MoneyLuckAlw has timed out
MoneyLuckAlw: folds
MoneyLuckAlw is sitting out
*** FLOP *** [2c Js 5s]
MoneyLuckAlw has returned
roquelinn: checks
Kume23: bets 65000
roquelinn: calls 65000
*** TURN *** [2c Js 5s] [Qc]
roquelinn: checks
Kume23: bets 244656 and is all-in
roquelinn: calls 244656
*** RIVER *** [2c Js 5s Qc] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
roquelinn: shows [5d 5h] (three of a kind, Fives)
Kume23: shows [Kh Kc] (a pair of Kings)
roquelinn collected 684312 from pot
Kume23 finished the tournament in 62nd place and received $2.77.


I was in the 4th place of the tournament. Villain was second. And I was wrong in the bet size on the turn. It was much bigger than I thought. I think that was my mistake.

 

[fundiver199]

I think, you are overplaying your hand. A smaller sizing on the flop work a lot better, and it keep you away from accidentally committing yourself to the pot. And on the turn you did not bet half pot, from the hand history you actually overbet the pot. At this point you really need to ask yourself, what worse hands he will call you with?

The turn brought an overcard to the board, so if he called you on the flop with a hand like AJ or KJ, is he really going to call an overbet for his tournament life with a hand, that is now only second pair? I dont think so. So when you play your hand like this, you basically only get action, when you are beat, or occationally from exactly QX of clubs, that flopped a flush draw and turned top pair.

I recommend using a hand history converter next time. It makes it a lot easier to read. I personally use this one:
https://upswingpoker.com/convert/

 

[Guernica1974]

turn

never go all in on turn, you bet preflop - and on flop with an overpair - why would he call you on flop? maybe got j so getting biggest pair but more likey either hold two pair or set and in anycase you are loosing.

check and if he bets just fold and you are still fine and can work to get to final table

 

[ssbn743]

PokerStars Hand #203362914753: Tournament #2669369284, $0.49+$0.06 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXX (4000/8000) - 2019/08/16 15:00:46 CT [2019/08/16 16:00:46 ET]
Table '2669369284 83' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: ivan3589 (146798 in chips)
Seat 2: niffty x (242370 in chips)
Seat 3: leandroboiad (471876 in chips)
Seat 4: roquelinn (VILLAIN) (339615 in chips) SB
Seat 5: MoneyLuckAlw (117906 in chips)
Seat 6: kokiluki (44213 in chips)
Seat 7: inthedollars (120110 in chips)
Seat 8: trellamenos3 (336482 in chips)
Seat 9: Kume23 (HERO) (334656 in chips) MP1
ivan3589: posts the ante 1000
niffty x: posts the ante 1000
leandroboiad: posts the ante 1000
roquelinn: posts the ante 1000
MoneyLuckAlw: posts the ante 1000
kokiluki: posts the ante 1000
inthedollars: posts the ante 1000
trellamenos3: posts the ante 1000
Kume23: posts the ante 1000
roquelinn: posts small blind 4000
MoneyLuckAlw: posts big blind 8000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kume23 [Kh Kc]
kokiluki: folds
inthedollars: folds
trellamenos3: folds
Kume23: raises 16000 to 24000
ivan3589: folds
niffty x: folds
leandroboiad: folds
roquelinn: calls 20000
MoneyLuckAlw has timed out
MoneyLuckAlw: folds
MoneyLuckAlw is sitting out
*** FLOP *** [2c Js 5s]
MoneyLuckAlw has returned
roquelinn: checks
Kume23: bets 65000
roquelinn: calls 65000
*** TURN *** [2c Js 5s] Q♣
roquelinn: checks
Kume23: bets 244656 and is all-in
roquelinn: calls 244656
*** RIVER *** [2c Js 5s Qc] 4♦
*** SHOW DOWN ***
roquelinn: shows [5d 5h] (three of a kind, Fives)
Kume23: shows [Kh Kc] (a pair of Kings)
roquelinn collected 684312 from pot
Kume23 finished the tournament in 62nd place and received $2.77.


I was in the 4th place of the tournament. Villain was second. And I was wrong in the bet size on the turn. It was much bigger than I thought. I think that was my mistake.

Pre
OK, we have a BB that only has 15BB’s. I’m ok with 3x-ing here, but I think I prefer a smaller size, 2.5x with our 40-ish BB stack would be very good IMO.

Now that we know the SB showed up with 55, I can say his pre-flop call is absolutely horrible – so consolation prize I guess. He should be 3-beting or folded here every time – and given that he’s a big stack, looking at calling another big stack, with short stacks in play, this is a no-brainer fold – it takes all kinds I guess.

Flop
Villain checks, like he should do 100% of his hands, and we will obviously be betting. Our SPR here is a little less than 5 and we don’t have the

So, I see two lines:
- SPR of 5.5 sets up a pot/.5/.5 line to chunk off the effective stack.
- SPR of 3.5 setup up .5/.5/.5 chunks
o We find ourselves just a bit in between
- Or, bet .33 to .5 pot and re-eval turn

Both have pro’s and con’s. However, this plan needs to be made here and executed.
I think based on ICM concerns, we have 40BB with 50 left, and are facing the only guy that can stack us – I think I opt for a smaller size, option 2.

Turn
This jam is bad – really bad. By doing do, you allow your opponent to fold all trash hands, and only call you with two-pair+

If you chose option 1 on the flop, this is a .5/pot sizing bet – we are trying to get all the money in, and we can do so with .5/.5. I’d bet $95K to $100K here with the line you’ve chosen. You notice, that gives us a nice .5-ish pot all-in otr.

But, this is the draw back to choosing the pot size otf, you’re committing. Not that that’s a bad thing, we’re going 3-streets here with KK – but when you lose, it feels like ICM suicide.

Final thoughts
Smaller flop size allows us to have more bluffs, and retain our stack when our fishy (and yes, just by having 55 here, he’s a fish) opponents catch. When deep in tournaments, I think that’s by far the best line – your chips are simply too valuable.

We could down-bet $20K on the flop very profitably. Since we don’t block the spade, I can see going a bit larger to deny equity – so I think up to $35K is fine.

Anyway, as you can see, this puts us in a much safer spot, that’ll probably go

Check/bet/call
Check/bet/call
All-in/make the correct fold to 25BB’s

Now, we’re going to lose some chips here, there’s no way around that – but it really didn’t have to be 40BB’s at such a deep and crucial stage.

 

[jadaminato]

Pre
OK, we have a BB that only has 15BB’s. I’m ok with 3x-ing here, but I think I prefer a smaller size, 2.5x with our 40-ish BB stack would be very good IMO.

Now that we know the SB showed up with 55, I can say his pre-flop call is absolutely horrible – so consolation prize I guess. He should be 3-beting or folded here every time – and given that he’s a big stack, looking at calling another big stack, with short stacks in play, this is a no-brainer fold – it takes all kinds I guess.

Flop
Villain checks, like he should do 100% of his hands, and we will obviously be betting. Our SPR here is a little less than 5 and we don’t have the

So, I see two lines:
- SPR of 5.5 sets up a pot/.5/.5 line to chunk off the effective stack.
- SPR of 3.5 setup up .5/.5/.5 chunks
o We find ourselves just a bit in between
- Or, bet .33 to .5 pot and re-eval turn

Both have pro’s and con’s. However, this plan needs to be made here and executed.
I think based on ICM concerns, we have 40BB with 50 left, and are facing the only guy that can stack us – I think I opt for a smaller size, option 2.

Turn
This jam is bad – really bad. By doing do, you allow your opponent to fold all trash hands, and only call you with two-pair+

If you chose option 1 on the flop, this is a .5/pot sizing bet – we are trying to get all the money in, and we can do so with .5/.5. I’d bet $95K to $100K here with the line you’ve chosen. You notice, that gives us a nice .5-ish pot all-in otr.

But, this is the draw back to choosing the pot size otf, you’re committing. Not that that’s a bad thing, we’re going 3-streets here with KK – but when you lose, it feels like ICM suicide.

Final thoughts
Smaller flop size allows us to have more bluffs, and retain our stack when our fishy (and yes, just by having 55 here, he’s a fish) opponents catch. When deep in tournaments, I think that’s by far the best line – your chips are simply too valuable.

We could down-bet $20K on the flop very profitably. Since we don’t block the spade, I can see going a bit larger to deny equity – so I think up to $35K is fine.

Anyway, as you can see, this puts us in a much safer spot, that’ll probably go

Check/bet/call
Check/bet/call
All-in/make the correct fold to 25BB’s

Now, we’re going to lose some chips here, there’s no way around that – but it really didn’t have to be 40BB’s at such a deep and crucial stage.

Thank you for your response and analysis! It was very accurate and helped me a lot.