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peaceofcoke

peaceofcoke

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UTG opens KcKh 3x, Btn calls 9s9d, H-BB I call QhJh
Pot 19295, flop 9h5s6h
UTG bets 10500, MP calls, I call.
Turn, Th, I pick up 6 more outs with the nuts straight flush draw.
H-checks, UTG bets 25398, MP went allin, I reraise 63k UTG calls.
River a freaking 6c.
What did I do wrong?
Should I have donk bet the Flop? or maybe the river, I checked with the intention of CR Because I hate to especially when UTG/+1 opens
 

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fundiver199

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Preflop
Standard defend with QJs.

Flop
If you call, pot will be around 50k, and you will only have a pot sized bet left. I lean towards check-jamming in this spot. Maybe there is not that much fold equity, but there could be some, and it ensures that you get to see both cards and realise all your equity. The issue with calling is, you cant really call a turn bet, if you miss, so you might be forced to fold out your equity.

Turn
As played obviously getting it in with a flush, really not much to say here.

Results
Why do people always assume, they did something wrong, when they lost a hand? You got it in with the best hand on the turn, and the rest is just variance. The other two guys are obviously not going to fold their hands either, so the whole situation is just a cooler or setup. All the chips have to go in, and then someone will emerge as the winner. If the river card had been 2c, this hand would never have ended up in a forum. So please stop being so results oriented. Losing is never fun, but its part of the game :)
 
peaceofcoke

peaceofcoke

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Preflop
Standard defend with QJs.

Flop
If you call, pot will be around 50k, and you will only have a pot sized bet left. I lean towards check-jamming in this spot. Maybe there is not that much fold equity, but there could be some, and it ensures that you get to see both cards and realise all your equity. The issue with calling is, you cant really call a turn bet, if you miss, so you might be forced to fold out your equity.
:)
I dont think the high set was going to fold if I check jammed the flop, so I lean toward a stupid turn play, I shouldve jammed the turn, what do you think?
 
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fundiver199

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There was around a pot sized bet left, and I would definitely not donk jam the turn, since this would give non equity hands like a single pair with no heart a very easy fold. But maybe you could lead 1/3 pot or something and hope, it induce somebody to jam it in themselfes, and if not then stick the rest in on the river.

To be honest you still sound very results oriented. You are looking for a way to not lose, when you end up with a flush against a full house on the river. But poker is a long term game. Its not about avoiding coolers and winning a particular hand. If you continue to play, you are going to win and lose a ton of hands like this, and with time you simply get used to it :)
 
peaceofcoke

peaceofcoke

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So it is more about keeping it EV+ on the long term, funny thing is I dont think I will be able to live 100 years,
I mean I have stats of 18802 hands played over two months, my ROI is 17% and ITM 20%. as you might notice I am not faring good here.
 

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Badday94

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I understand the urge to post such a hand because you had the nuts and you still lost so you're left in disbelief that you lost and start questioning what is the meaning of life, did I do something wrong here? I lost in the exact same way with king high flush to an ace high flush. I know it sucks to lose but there is no need to dwell on such a hand and think oh maybe I could have done something, there must be something I could have done. No there is not, sometimes it doesn't go your way. Think how nice all that was to the guy with pocket kings.
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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What did you do wrong? You posted this hand where you got your money in good on the turn with a flush and outs to a straight flush..then lost on the river and asked everyone why!

The problem here is the same problem tons of players have...you are being results oriented instead of focusing on your play to defend pre, then jam the turn and whether or not it was all correct.

For me, the defend is definitely standard - we flop well with two overs and a flush draw - easy check-call on the flop.

Then we hit our gin card on the turn - we are simply never folding here. We called flop to improve out hand strength - and we did in the best way - so if we called flop to hit our draw - we DO hit our draw - then to consider folding would just be the worst...if we had intentions on folding a flush, then we should just fold flop (which is incorrect).

Anyhow, played the hand relatively fine...the mistake here is the KKs calling off. With them betting twice into two villans, on a turn card that brings in the flush - then getting raised not once, but TWICE - KKs are just a single pair and a snap fold - their flush draw might not be any good even if they hit it AND if one of the two villans already have the flush - that card removal means that villans KKs will miss the flush card on the river even more often than normal. Just another fool overplaying their over pair and going broke when they shouldn't.

Recap - you played the hand fine - got it in good and lost...so what? Such is poker. Stop whining about bad rivers and getting hung up on the end results of hands. One more time - you did fine, the KKs however, butchered this hand - they tied the knot, took the dive, and hung themselves!
 
peaceofcoke

peaceofcoke

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What did you do wrong? You posted this hand where you got your money in good on the turn with a flush and outs to a straight flush..then lost on the river and asked everyone why!

The problem here is the same problem tons of players have...you are being results oriented instead of focusing on your play to defend pre, then jam the turn and whether or not it was all correct.

For me, the defend is definitely standard - we flop well with two overs and a flush draw - easy check-call on the flop.

Then we hit our gin card on the turn - we are simply never folding here. We called flop to improve out hand strength - and we did in the best way - so if we called flop to hit our draw - we DO hit our draw - then to consider folding would just be the worst...if we had intentions on folding a flush, then we should just fold flop (which is incorrect).

Anyhow, played the hand relatively fine...the mistake here is the KKs calling off. With them betting twice into two villans, on a turn card that brings in the flush - then getting raised not once, but TWICE - KKs are just a single pair and a snap fold - their flush draw might not be any good even if they hit it AND if one of the two villans already have the flush - that card removal means that villans KKs will miss the flush card on the river even more often than normal. Just another fool overplaying their over pair and going broke when they shouldn't.

Recap - you played the hand fine - got it in good and lost...so what? Such is poker. Stop whining about bad rivers and getting hung up on the end results of hands. One more time - you did fine, the KKs however, butchered this hand - they tied the knot, took the dive, and hung themselves!
Yeah, but when I play against such players, I tend to go on tilt. I am really wondering if you are going to be a 3streets caller and never fold AA/ KK, why not just go allin on PF, I mean, thats utterly stupid, dont u thino?
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Yeah, but when I play against such players, I tend to go on tilt. I am really wondering if you are going to be a 3streets caller and never fold AA/ KK, why not just go allin on PF, I mean, thats utterly stupid, dont u thino?


If you have tilt issues then that's something you need to work on separately aside from what is taking place during this hand. freerolls are full of bad players making bad plays and blaming the player pool and for those players saying that you can "adjust accordingly" for such an irrational player pool will only build bad habits and at the end of the day will not have you playing good solid poker. Trust me, a good solid winning poker strategy will crush freerolls all day long - you just have to keep in mind freerolls are extremely high variance, and when it comes to tournament poker in general - you will be losing alot more than you will be winning.

Anyhow - back to your concerns about the hand -- preflop we are allowed to squeeze jam QJs to a PFR and call in front for about 35bb or less -- just keep in mind when you do get called off - it is going to be by the top of most villans ranges (AQ+, AJs+ and JJ+) and you will be in bad shape. The reason we CAN squeeze jam such a hand is because of the blocker effect our hand presents and we are forcing villans to call us off much tighter this way - hence why I already stated when you do this and you do get called - you are likely going to be in pretty rough shape - tho not dead by any means.

Now, if we had AA or KK here - we are certainly squeezing this preflop - idk stack sizes relative to the current SB/BB level at hand, but guessing it looks like you are playing about 30bb effective or so which makes jamming AA or KK a fine play preflop. If you are mixing in a proper squeeze jam range of something like AJ+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs+ and pairs like 88+ -- then this means you are plenty balanced between the top of your value range and your marginal shoving range - thus making your jam harder for players to determine your hand strength. In a nutshell - if you are only squeeze jamming like QQ+ and AK here - it makes is veeeery easy for any villan paying the slightest bit of attention to exploit you by over folding instead of calling off properly.

If this were a heads up pot - you can easily check/jam this flop with two overs and a flush draw -- the fact that this hand is played 3 way takes that option away from us. When we are heads up and we check/jam we get folds from better hands - like unpaired Ax combos, underpairs to the board, and sometimes flopped 2nd pairs. In the event we get called, we have massive amounts of equity vs that single villans range - on this flop with our holding, we are doing great against AA or KK - our equity has us ahead of top pair combos, and we are also not a huge dog vs flopped sets, etc. So on our stack size it's a great spot for us to check/shove this flop IF it were a heads up pot.

When playing multiway pots we are now facing two ranges - so we play our hands much more conservatively - only raising sets, two pairs or better. We literally have no bluffs multiway on almost every texture -- that being said - if you are facing opponents who know this, if you check/jam this flop multiway like this and then get called, you are pretty much crushed almost always. I know this is a freeroll atmosphere - but again, we are trying to build good habits and have you play proper poker. If you want to play bingo with the rest of the fools then that is your own choosing to do so.

So again, you CAN squeeze jam pre, but calling and seeing a flop is a fine play too and probably the line I would personally take myself -- check-call on the flop is perfect, not overplaying our hand multiway and realizing our equity is what we should do. Turn card is a bink for us -- so getting it all in here is totally fine. We got our money in good and lost - it happens. It's going to happen alot, such is poker. If you can't handle that, then maybe poker isn't the game for you. You are too wrapped up in losing this hand on the river, rather than realizing how well you played this hand post flop and how often you are going to win this hand long term. You are focusing on the wrong aspects my friend.
 
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