vskots150
Enthusiast
Silver Level
What do you think of this draw? What is my mistake in this distribution? Should I check with a flush on the river or should I fold to push? https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/924wyqHNv
Edu1
Legend
Platinum Level
I swear don't put villain with QQ in this spot when I saw the replay, he slow play that so much... I think you should check in the river, but I understand the way you play. I think most of player will not play QQ that way RoWw23 do. other fews hands who would beat you is Axc or a improbable 33, 44. so, call this river shove is ok, imho
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Preflop
Just fold. You rarely ever make money by cold calling preflop, and KTs is not the hand to do it with against an EP open.
Flop
When it check to you, take a stab with your draw. Gain the initiative, thin the field and find out, where you are.
Turn
As played check back again. You only have one card left to improve, and you look much weaker, than if you had bet the flop, so you have less fold equity.
River
You made the flush great! Of course you need to bet for value here, but when he check-jam, its time to stop and reevaluate the strength of your hand. You only beat a bluff, and in the micros people never raise the river as a bluff. So unfortunately you have to fold. Maybe a maniac can show up here with a worse flush, but you dont have that read, since its the first hand of the tournament.
Summary
Preflop, flop and turn was not played in the most optimal way in my opinion, but nothing you did was really bad or costing massive amounts of chips. The river however need to be a bet-fold. This is sort of the essence of traditional TAG play. Bet for value or as a semi-bluff, until you face resistance, and then give up, unless you can beat some of his value.
Just fold. You rarely ever make money by cold calling preflop, and KTs is not the hand to do it with against an EP open.
Flop
When it check to you, take a stab with your draw. Gain the initiative, thin the field and find out, where you are.
Turn
As played check back again. You only have one card left to improve, and you look much weaker, than if you had bet the flop, so you have less fold equity.
River
You made the flush great! Of course you need to bet for value here, but when he check-jam, its time to stop and reevaluate the strength of your hand. You only beat a bluff, and in the micros people never raise the river as a bluff. So unfortunately you have to fold. Maybe a maniac can show up here with a worse flush, but you dont have that read, since its the first hand of the tournament.
Summary
Preflop, flop and turn was not played in the most optimal way in my opinion, but nothing you did was really bad or costing massive amounts of chips. The river however need to be a bet-fold. This is sort of the essence of traditional TAG play. Bet for value or as a semi-bluff, until you face resistance, and then give up, unless you can beat some of his value.
jaworek1405
Legend
Bronze Level
Hello, I play this hand similarly to hero. I always play call pre flop from hj, co i button postion with suited connector mainly to catch flush draw. I prefer check on the flop to control the pot. On the turn check and bet isn't bad. I think when all opponents check second time on the turn we can semibluff for value. When opponents check on the flop and on the turn usually means that they have not good cards. On the river I bet for value and probably I call opponent's check/raise all in, because we have the flush with very good kicker. This time opponent slow play full house and it happens sometimes. It was nice hand.
Jon Poker
Legend
Silver Level
This is yet another example of being results oriented...you would not even be posting this hand had you won the pot!
The call preflop is fine - we just need to realize our K is marginal, so if/when we flop top pair we need to be cautious about it. When seeing flops with hands like this we are generally looking to flop two pair or better. We flopped the 2nd nut flush draw and I like the way we played it to the river.
Once we hit our draw, I am certainly never folding. It's why we practice good bankroll management. We could easily be up against a worse flush or a 6x that is now spazzing out for one reason or another. Point is I am not folding the 2nd nuts at these stakes. At least not very often.
For our opponent to play a full house that passively, they may have left some value on the table. Being all trappy and slow playing hands like this rarely works out...if they cbet flop we call with our draw and one over - bet turn and we call - then we miss river and we fold....if it checks through and we miss river, we fold and they do not get those 2 streets of value - so big mistake on their part as well. They just got lucky we hit our draw and couldnt fold...that's the only reason they made $$ this hand
Nr98
Visionary
Silver Level
Ye you keep questioning basic decisions because of variance. Not the most profitable mentality to have.
Having said that though, in this spot I'm actually glad you did post it. Just fold this hand preflop. Alternatively squeeze at a low frequency. We're so often second or third best here, so I'm not a huge fan of flatting (this also allows opponents behind to squeeze us out of the pot). Fold or squeeze
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Heros hand was only the 9th nuts, but of course its up for debate, just how likely some of the boats are.
Jon Poker
Legend
Silver Level
If we get down to it sure - but the way the hand played out I feel like I'm against more flushes than full houses. As I mentioned in the post as well,ni think the villan loses a ton of value by being so trappy because when we miss our draw, we give them nothing.
I also want to retouch on people telling the OP to just fold KTs preflop - I think this is a mistake as well. KTo is a snap fold in this spot - but suited broadway hands flop very well and we should be wanting to see flops with them especially in position when we close the action. We just have to be mindful of our actual hand strength and not to overplay marginal made hands. With a hand that blocks so many value combos and can make the nuts in a few different ways - I am always going to take a good price in position to the flop.
Jon Poker
Legend
Silver Level
Ye you keep questioning basic decisions because of variance. Not the most profitable mentality to have.
Having said that though, in this spot I'm actually glad you did post it. Just fold this hand preflop. Alternatively squeeze at a low frequency. We're so often second or third best here, so I'm not a huge fan of flatting (this also allows opponents behind to squeeze us out of the pot). Fold or squeeze
I would be more inclined to squeeze KTo or KQo rather than a suited Broadway hand...when we get 4bet here never get to see a flop - and even vs QQ our KTs has decent equity preflop. I tend to squeeze more with hands that have lesser value than with hands that flop so well because of this ideal. I know I am beating a dead horse here - but we just have to understand our relative hand strength and we must not over play/over value marginal made holdings post flop. That's where people make the most mistakes.
Nr98
Visionary
Silver Level
Flatting is a bit marginal normally since we're quite deep vs an EP open and MP call. But since it's very likely that we got fish behind on the Bu and blinds we probably get away with it and it's very +EV in a 0.50 tourney. Agreed on that part. You're completely right that with blinds who never squeeze, a call is +EV for sure.
Having said that though, overall a squeeze is preferred for a couple of reasons imo:
1. We don't want to have too many hands in our call/fold to a squeeze range. This would make us very exploitable.
2. Against a squeeze we fold the PFA out of hands like KQo AJo etc. This is a HUGE win in equity.
3. The reason why we pick KTs over KJo is simple; it's suited, and thus more playable (double barrel potential because of backdoor FD etc). Also it has more equity when dominated. KQo could go either way, pretty marginal and thus spot dependent. But KJo and KTo are simply folds this deep. This is exactly the reason why we can for example open A7s from UTG but fold a hand like ATo deepstacked.
As for: "we just have to understand our relative hand strength and we must not over play/over value marginal made holdings post flop." completely agree, and that's why it is called a bluff squeeze
As for the risk of getting 4bet, we just insta muck and that's okay. Opponents are likely to have us beat (at these stakes a 4bet bluff range is soooo rare). We don't lose too much equity in this scenario since we were likely to lose a pot postflop anyways against V's 4betting range (had we not squeezed).
1
1player2
Rock Star
Silver Level
It's Hard to get away from that spot. Slow played top set and then check raised you all in. Only Ace high flush and boats bring it home. I would have called as well. Check raises on the river are tough for all players unless you have the stone cold nuts. Some would say let it go if he shoves on you. The blinds look like you were in the first few levels. Maybe consider what he would risk an early exit from the tournament with. Good Luck
Good luck to all
eetenor
Legend
Platinum Level
Thank U 4 Posting.
On the flop your range has Qs and 6s and flush draws so bet all those. You should also be betting under pairs and bluffs 40% pot. Get AT to fold.
Then when called you can pot control turn if you want or bluff again to get AX to fold.
On the river you lose to. All AX flushes all full houses and villain has only Acx bluffs but probably not even that in your games. The 6 leads on the turn the AQ is afraid of the flush unless we know V is crazy the river is a fold.
Hope this helps
1
1player2
Rock Star
Silver Level
Thank you for the post. My advice would be to value bet your flush draw after the flop. Half pot sizing. I like the way you played the turn well with the value bet. Now the river when he jams all in over your bet you have to think of what hands is he confident enough to go all in with. Full houses or high flushes. You block two of the higher flushes. K,10 so i would have put him on a full house. It's hard to find a fold with the K high flush regardless. Good Luck
Good Luck To All