$0.27 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked Turbo: $$0.27 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked Turbo: FT ATo vs QQ

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$0.27 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked Turbo: $$0.27 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked Turbo: FT ATo vs QQ

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 38/33/25

The intriguing one in this hand was the super aggressive villain's flat, I was very suspicious, but my image was so good ... some I did shovy with premium hand showdawn, and the FT was practically all in push fold. How should I play this hand?


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 105,000/210,000 (27,300 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

SJH (UTG): 74,136 (0 bb)
CSnyder1 (UTG+1): 2,316,215 (11 bb)
azzkckr1260 (MP): 2,020,358 (10 bb)
TCKilla (MP+1): 1,941,916 (9 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (LP): 2,306,603 (11 bb)
megalithic (CO): 968,775 (5 bb)
swimbles (BU): 635,106 (3 bb)
caricuao (SB): 1,839,723 (9 bb)
damnthtsweet (BB): 497,168 (2 bb)

Pre-Flop: (560,700) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is LP with A T
SJH (UTG) calls 46,836 (all-in), CSnyder1 (UTG+1) calls 210,000, 2 players fold, 1MilhaoSemNada (LP) raises to 2,279,303 (all-in), 4 players fold, CSnyder1 (UTG+1) calls 2,069,303

Flop: (5,166,142) K 6 7 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (5,166,142) 7 (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (5,166,142) 4 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 5,166,142

Showdown:
1MilhaoSemNada (LP) shows A T (a pair of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 9%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

SJH (UTG) shows J A (a pair of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 8%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

CSnyder1 (UTG+1) shows Q Q (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 73%, Flop: 87%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

CSnyder1 (UTG+1) wins 5,166,142
 
demesquita

demesquita

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I don't understand, being you and the villain the top 2 stacks (even though everybody is on push-fold stack sizes), this limp from him could very well represent a monster hand trying to get someone else into the pot without any risk of falling from the tournament himself... I think your ATo is a solid fold here pre-flop. And wait for a better spot because doens't seem like at those stack sizes the tournament would even last much longer.
 
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I don't understand, being you and the villain the top 2 stacks (even though everybody is on push-fold stack sizes), this limp from him could very well represent a monster hand trying to get someone else into the pot without any risk of falling from the tournament himself... I think your ATo is a solid fold here pre-flop. And wait for a better spot because doens't seem like at those stack sizes the tournament would even last much longer.

Yes it is true! now I can see that, but at the time of the action I was wrong. And I also wonder why I did this, the super aggressive villain always goes limp, something strange was happening, I suspected it but I was impulsive, it was to have thought a little more ..
But would you give up your AT for a limp from a super aggressive player?
So straight with - 10bb? `+ and a somewhat complicated situation
 
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The key here is the fact, he has such a small gap between VPIP and PFR. And now suddenly he limp in a situation, which would be perfect for jamming with a 11BB stack and covering everyone else at the table. This really smells like a trap, so I think, you can let the ATo go and try to find another spot. With a bit of luck UTG will bust in this very hand, and then you have already leveled up one place without risking as much as a chip. These sort of ICM considerations are rather important at the final table, and you also have 4 guys left to act behind you, who could all wake up with a big hand. So even against a fishy limper like a 42/13 I could see a case for letting ATo go here and maybe only jam AJs, AQ or better.
 
demesquita

demesquita

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I think shoving ATo for 11 BBs is fine.


Not in this situation. All the stacks were smaller than 11bb. The tournament was in their final moments. Big stack x big stack. Just let it go. There is gonna haveat least another blind level and better spots for action.
 
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fundiver199

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Not in this situation. All the stacks were smaller than 11bb. The tournament was in their final moments. Big stack x big stack. Just let it go. There is gonna haveat least another blind level and better spots for action.

Exactly. For me it would be fine to open jam ATo here and try to be the one taking out the short stacks. But when UTG+1 has already entered the pot, even with a limp, then I would just get out of his way and let him be the one to try and bust UTG, who is all-in and at risk, and/or BB, who already has nearly half his stack in the middle. Just fold and let it play out, and with a bit of luck its down to 7 or 8 after this hand.
 
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Sidetracked

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Not in this situation. All the stacks were smaller than 11bb. The tournament was in their final moments. Big stack x big stack. Just let it go. There is gonna haveat least another blind level and better spots for action.

Exactly. For me it would be fine to open jam ATo here and try to be the one taking out the short stacks. But when UTG+1 has already entered the pot, even with a limp, then I would just get out of his way and let him be the one to try and bust UTG, who is all-in and at risk, and/or BB, who already has nearly half his stack in the middle. Just fold and let it play out, and with a bit of luck its down to 7 or 8 after this hand.

I disagree with both of you here.

This is still very early at the FT, as there are still 9 players. That means that the villain's stats are not as definitive as they would be with a larger hand sample. I've played many final tables where a player's style can change abruptly when they actually get there. Everyone is saying' oh, he limped, so he has a monster'. And in this case, he actually did. But the idea is not to be results orientated.

So, I stand by my original view that, with the blinds, the antes, and the chips from the 2 players in the pot, ATo is a good shove in this spot.

And one last point. The structure of this tournament is turbo, and so it's basically a crapshoot at the FT with even the big stacks at only 11 blinds. That does mean that you don't have the luxury of waiting for a true premium hand, and sometimes have to go with something a bit less premium.
 
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fundiver199

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This is still very early at the FT, as there are still 9 players. That means that the villain's stats are not as definitive as they would be with a larger hand sample.


A HUD dont only display stats from the current session. It displays stats from all the hands, you have played against someone, since you started playing on that particular poker site. OP did not give up the sample, and therefore we dont actually know, how significant or not significant those HUD data are. If its 10 hands, it dont mean so much, but if its 100 or more, then its definitely a very important piece of information, which it would be silly to ignore, when you have it.
 
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The key here is the fact, he has such a small gap between VPIP and PFR. And now suddenly he limp in a situation, which would be perfect for jamming with a 11BB stack and covering everyone else at the table. This really smells like a trap, so I think, you can let the ATo go and try to find another spot. With a bit of luck UTG will bust in this very hand, and then you have already leveled up one place without risking as much as a chip. These sort of ICM considerations are rather important at the final table, and you also have 4 guys left to act behind you, who could all wake up with a big hand. So even against a fishy limper like a 42/13 I could see a case for letting ATo go here and maybe only jam AJs, AQ or better.
huhum makes sense. I was doing a FT today at GGpoker and there the value of the ICM appears, I was able to see more clearly when it is worth taking a risk, and it really makes all the difference in FT.
 
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Not in this situation. All the stacks were smaller than 11bb. The tournament was in their final moments. Big stack x big stack. Just let it go. There is gonna haveat least another blind level and better spots for action.
yes it does not compensate only for the pay jump. It was letting themselves be killed and hoping for a better spot
 
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I disagree with both of you here.

This is still very early at the FT, as there are still 9 players. That means that the villain's stats are not as definitive as they would be with a larger hand sample. I've played many final tables where a player's style can change abruptly when they actually get there. Everyone is saying' oh, he limped, so he has a monster'. And in this case, he actually did. But the idea is not to be results orientated.

So, I stand by my original view that, with the blinds, the antes, and the chips from the 2 players in the pot, ATo is a good shove in this spot.

And one last point. The structure of this tournament is turbo, and so it's basically a crapshoot at the FT with even the big stacks at only 11 blinds. That does mean that you don't have the luxury of waiting for a true premium hand, and sometimes have to go with something a bit less premium.

Interesting your point of view! I also don't think it was a blunder. But I was supposed to take into account the smaller stacks that could fall before me, and I'm also trying to correct my leaks about aggression. Another issue that I noticed was about the hands played, I think I had more than 100 hands (I can confirm that in this case) it really smelled like a trap coming from a very aggressive player. But you are right Also in the matter of being turbo, commenting on the paused hand here is one thing but at the time I was playing it is more difficult, you with 11 bb all short stack, the effective stack is very similar. If you wait too long the aggressive ones will exploit you and you will be swallowed by bluffs, and you can't depend on just good hands.
 
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