$0.11 NLHE MTT Rebuy: $ NLHE MTT Rebuy: Low to mid pocket pairs: play it safe, or go for value?

EnigmaTTO

EnigmaTTO

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$0.11 NLHE MTT Rebuy: $ NLHE MTT Rebuy: Low to mid pocket pairs: play it safe, or go for value?

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 140/280 (36 ante) - 6 players Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 49,325 (176 bb)
MP (Hero): 53,693 (192 bb)
CO: 43,431 (155 bb)
BU: 89,483 (320 bb)
SB: 48,543 (173 bb)
BB: 50,038 (179 bb)

Pre-Flop: (636) Hero is MP with 4 4
1 fold, Hero raises to 840, 1 fold, BTN calls 840, 1 fold, BB calls 560

Flop: (2,876) Q 7 9 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 1,718, BTN calls 1,718, BB calls 1,718

Turn: (8,030) 2 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (8,030) 6 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Villians both showed KJo


So this is a hand I played a few days ago that I believe was early on in the tournament and I'm wondering how I should be playing situations like this one where I have a low to mid pocket pairs and the board has multiple overcards. In this particular hand I'm not sure I should even be raising with a pair of 4s but someone ahead of me may have been sitting out, I don't remember. I do think I should probably have raised a lot bigger if I am playing the hand, maybe 5-6 bb?

I'm wondering if, since I've cbet the flop here, should I fire again considering that card that came? I'm pretty sure my plan was just to check and potentially call depending on the cards that came since I had showdown value with my pair. Thoughts?
 
Ecolando

Ecolando

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Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 140/280 (36 ante) - 6 players Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 49,325 (176 bb)
MP (Hero): 53,693 (192 bb)
CO: 43,431 (155 bb)
BU: 89,483 (320 bb)
SB: 48,543 (173 bb)
BB: 50,038 (179 bb)

Pre-Flop: (636) Hero is MP with 4 4
1 fold, Hero raises to 840, 1 fold, BTN calls 840, 1 fold, BB calls 560

Flop: (2,876) Q 7 9 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 1,718, BTN calls 1,718, BB calls 1,718

Turn: (8,030) 2 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (8,030) 6 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Villians both showed KJo


So this is a hand I played a few days ago that I believe was early on in the tournament and I'm wondering how I should be playing situations like this one where I have a low to mid pocket pairs and the board has multiple overcards. In this particular hand I'm not sure I should even be raising with a pair of 4s but someone ahead of me may have been sitting out, I don't remember. I do think I should probably have raised a lot bigger if I am playing the hand, maybe 5-6 bb?

I'm wondering if, since I've cbet the flop here, should I fire again considering that card that came? I'm pretty sure my plan was just to check and potentially call depending on the cards that came since I had showdown value with my pair. Thoughts?



Pre-flop: I probably would have stuck with just a min raise here. You are early position, so that indicates strength which you can benefit from later in the hand. 2 vs 4bb is not a huge difference particularly when you are this deep stacked, but 44 is pretty easily beaten in a multiway pot. 2bb allows you to see a flop, and in the case where you flop a set, you can stand to win quite a bit more.

Flop: with 3 players in the mix, I would be cautious with betting here because so many hands can beat you. A Q, 7, or 9.. although I don't think a lot of 7s and 9s would call a 4bb raise preflop. If you are gonna bet, I like the bigger size to make the draws pay, but if you get called, it's time to go into check mode.

Turn / River: Check is the correct play here. At best you have a bluff catcher, and calling a bluff is a risky move with a low pair. Lucky for you they were passive and allowed you to take it!
 
F

fundiver199

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A 3BB open raise is completely fine with deep stacks, and 44 is also a standard open. On this board I would not even continue against a single opponent. There are just way to many hands, that connect, and that will continue. And even when you are against a hand like KJ, you are still only flipping or even slightly behind, and you only have 2 improvement cards.

Even when you were the preflop aggressor, the postflop plan with a small pair is still mostly to flop a set. Maybe you can take it home with a C-bet on some dry boards against a single opponent, who called from the blinds. But on wet boards, out of position and multiway you should generally just cut your losses and get out, when you dont hit your set.

You got very lucky here, that none of them flopped a pair, that they had the same hand blocking each others outs, and that they did not try to bluff, because obviously you cant call with an underpair to the board. Or at least not profitably call. Pressing the "call" button is of course always an option but not always a good one :)
 
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300HPGOD

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I dont really mind anything with this hand in how you played it. Super deep stacks so opening with 44 is good and your raise sizing, even though is bigger than what I would have raised, is correct for the stack depth. I like C betting on the flop even though the play in a vacuum is a loser over time. However, if you play these same opponents often or will have many hands with them coming up (no way to ever know how or when the tables will break) you can then install a vision in your opponents minds that you c bet way too much. That will lead to more flop raises against you which, when you have strong hands, leads to extra value. Again, this seems early in the tournament so I like showing that you are a c bettor and should lead to payoffs later on.

The turn and river I think are "standard" as when both players call you think they should have something and from there you are just trying to get showdown cheaply just as you did. Worked out nicely that you were good but your overall question of betting here is a no especially against two opponents. Maybe against one if you think their post flop MO is to fold too often but generally you just want to get to showdown with these hands.
 
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fundiver199

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I like C betting on the flop even though the play in a vacuum is a loser over time. However, if you play these same opponents often or will have many hands with them coming up (no way to ever know how or when the tables will break) you can then install a vision in your opponents minds that you c bet way too much. That will lead to more flop raises against you which, when you have strong hands, leads to extra value. Again, this seems early in the tournament so I like showing that you are a c bettor and should lead to payoffs later on.

In a micro tournament I am not sure, its to relevant to worry about our table image. A lot of these guys wont even be paying attention to, what we are doing, because they are basic level 1 thinkers, or watching a movie while playing. And even if table image is relevant, I would rather, that people fold to my C-bets, because most of time, when I C-bet, I have nothing :D

Also we can have a ton of hands, that I would rather C-bet on this board than an underpair. Even a hand like 87s is a better candidate, because it has 5 outs to improve rather than just 2. Especially in a multiway pot I think, its fine to always give up with junk, and on a board like this the worst possible hands are pretty much the small pairs and wheel aces without flush potential like A5 of spades.

The turn and river I think are "standard" as when both players call you think they should have something and from there you are just trying to get showdown cheaply just as you did.


Turn and river is definitely standard. Hero kind of asked, if he can bet turn for value, and I think, what must have happened here, is, that he analysed the hand from showdown and backwards. If we knew our opponents cards, then of course we would want to bet the turn for value, since they were drawing to the same 8 outs. But we are not Mike Postle in god mode. We are playing against ranges and not individual hands.

If we simplify things by saying, that our opponents have a made hand half the time and a draw half the time, when they call us on the flop, then we are only ahead 1 out of 4 times against two opponents, since we basically lose to any made hand having an underpair to the board. When we are behind, we have 5% equity, so the only viable turn line is to check-fold, unless they bet something completely silly like 280 into the 8.030 chip pot, where we would actually be getting the right price to setmine :)
 
greatgame230

greatgame230

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I would have only called preflop and check / fold flop, turn and river
 
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