$0.11 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Continue w J/5 from BB -- Checks around

[theANMATOR]

Note: This is form memory not a hand history database.

NLHE $50gtd (0.11 buyin) 10 minute levels, 2 hours late reg.

Situation: 2 levels before late registration closes.

400/600/anties? maybe 100
I'm a short stack at the table with about 14bb. Three seats to my right is a big stack (V1) with about 60bb and the opponent to my direct right (V2) has double my stack 28bb.

Their are two other large chip stacks who have been battling against each other frequently due to one being in BB while the other is the BTN on the other side of the table, however they do not play a role in this hand.

V1 has accumulated his stack by utilizing his big stack at opportune times. He has caught some people shoving light and he'd be the only caller and get there by the river. He has shown down A/Q s, pocket Ks, and Q/J s, winning all the hands he's shown down with.

Up to this point I had played only one hand against V1 because their was always big opens before his action, he would often 3bet and I didn't have any playable hands.

The one hand we did play together, about 5 orbits earlier, the table folded around to him, he 4x opened my BB and I 3.5x re-raised his open and he folded.


The hand in question;
Folds around to V1 in CO, He limp opens, SB V2 calls and I continue out of BB with J/5 o.

Flop is K,4,T rainbow. Checks around.
Turn is a 5. SB checks and I'm cautious here and decide to check thinking my bottom pair can not be good here.
River is Q. SB again checks

Guideline for this thread states not to indicate the outcome of the hand, so I'll stop here and pose this question.


What to do here?
As a semi-vulnerable short stack should I bet bottom pair here?
The hand up to this point feels very trappy. Like someone is checking to induce another player to bet out, so they can check-raise. At least that's how I felt in the situation.


Very interested in opinions.

 

[eetenor]

Protection?

Note: This is form memory not a hand history database.

NLHE $50gtd (0.11 buyin) 10 minute levels, 2 hours late reg.

Situation: 2 levels before late registration closes.

400/600/anties? maybe 100
I'm a short stack at the table with about 14bb. Three seats to my right is a big stack (V1) with about 60bb and the opponent to my direct right (V2) has double my stack 28bb.

Their are two other large chip stacks who have been battling against each other frequently due to one being in BB while the other is the BTN on the other side of the table, however they do not play a role in this hand.

V1 has accumulated his stack by utilizing his big stack at opportune times. He has caught some people shoving light and he'd be the only caller and get there by the river. He has shown down A/Q s, pocket Ks, and Q/J s, winning all the hands he's shown down with.

Up to this point I had played only one hand against V1 because their was always big opens before his action, he would often 3bet and I didn't have any playable hands.

The one hand we did play together, about 5 orbits earlier, the table folded around to him, he 4x opened my BB and I 3.5x re-raised his open and he folded.


The hand in question;
Folds around to V1 in CO, He limp opens, SB V2 calls and I continue out of BB with J/5 o.

Flop is K,4,T rainbow. Checks around.
Turn is a 5. SB checks and I'm cautious here and decide to check thinking my bottom pair can not be good here.
River is Q. SB again checks

Guideline for this thread states not to indicate the outcome of the hand, so I'll stop here and pose this question.


What to do here?
As a semi-vulnerable short stack should I bet bottom pair here?
The hand up to this point feels very trappy. Like someone is checking to induce another player to bet out, so they can check-raise. At least that's how I felt in the situation.


Very interested in opinions.

Thanks for posting.

What better hands can we get to fold if we bet the turn representing the K 10 or 5
Would we not have pushed QQ JJ 99 88 77 vs 2 limpers, one with position?
Would we check a weak K on the flop giving a free card to Aces and QJ and Q10, J10
What K would the Aggressive big stack limp?
Why would the SB check a K twice?
Why would the Agg big stack not bet a 10 on the flop? Or QJ?
If we bet turn 3 BB do we shove 10 BB most rivers and get a ten to fold?
Why would our Villains be trapping in a tiny pot?
V1 should get calls from any 10 -99 88 77 66 44 33 22 on the flop.
V1 should also 2 barrel bluff this pot vs two smaller stacks in the blinds.
V2 needs to bet out to build a pot not check raise vs a limper and a BB neither of which should have a hand strong enough to call a check raise with.
Why is V2 not leading a 10 or 99 88 on the 5 turn for protection?

Hope this helps

 

[fundiver199]

In general when you are betting the river, it always has to be for value or as a bluff. To bet for value, you have to be ahead when called, and its kind of optimistic to assume, that is the case here. Sure once in a while someone will hero call you with A4, but CO will also have hit on the Q sometimes, and sometimes one of them has been checking a hand like 66 or T9, which was ahead the whole time.

I also dont think, it makes sense to bluff. They are probably not folding a T, and they are certainly not folding a Q. So I would just check here and hope to win a small pot at showdown. If CO finally bet, I probably check-fold. In general I dont like to invest chips in silly spots like this, where I got a free play with some really bad hand like J5.

 

[theANMATOR]

Results

Thank you gentlemen for your feedback.

Thanks for posting.

What K would the Aggressive big stack limp?
Why would the SB check a K twice?
Why would the Agg big stack not bet a 10 on the flop? Or QJ?

Why would our Villains be trapping in a tiny pot?

V1 should also 2 barrel bluff this pot vs two smaller stacks in the blinds.
V2 needs to bet out to build a pot not check raise vs a limper and a BB neither of which should have a hand strong enough to call a check raise with.
Why is V2 not leading a 10 or 99 88 on the 5 turn for protection?/QUOTE]
This hand felt trappy to me simply because nobody was betting, and from my experience at the micro levels that usually means one of 3 possible things, and sometimes a combination of them. A players is waiting for another player to bet so they can check-raise and get more value. A player has a weak pocket pair and is beat by any paired card on the board, or nobody hit anything and they are overly cautious.

I didn't classify V1 big stack as aggressive. If I had to give him a one word description I'd say he was just active with good hands.
The one hand we played together I re-raised him pre and he folded. That is not indicative of an aggressive player, and this hand actually reinforced that he was not an aggressive player.

At the stakes I play Villains do all sorts of funny stuff to loose or win chips, so I do not put it past any player to attempt a trap in such a small pot. But the logic of it 'could' be that a check-raise increases fold equity and makes a tiny pot 3-4 times larger, so what is essentially a 3bb pot could become a 12-18bb pot with two actions, bet and re-raise.

Yes - if I were in V1s position I would have bet the flop, and barreled the turn - regardless of my holdings.
I totally agree with your last sentence, that had crossed my mind in the seconds left to act at.

In general when you are betting the river, it always has to be for value or as a bluff. To bet for value, you have to be ahead when called, and its kind of optimistic to assume, that is the case here. Sure once in a while someone will hero call you with A4, but CO will also have hit on the Q sometimes, and sometimes one of them has been checking a hand like 66 or T9, which was ahead the whole time.

I also dont think, it makes sense to bluff. They are probably not folding a T, and they are certainly not folding a Q. So I would just check here and hope to win a small pot at showdown. If CO finally bet, I probably check-fold. In general I dont like to invest chips in silly spots like this, where I got a free play with some really bad hand like J5.

Great input as always fundiver. I've been silent stalking your posts for over a month now.

I wasn't going to bet the river in this spot for value or anything else. I just new if I had I'd have sprung the trap. As it turns out though - I could have.

It ended up checking around and I scooped the tiny pot. Neither player showed.

I've experienced hands like this every once in a while, multi-way where nobody is interested in taking the initiative, and one person ends up taking it down with bottom pair or Ace high. It's just beyond the odds with 6-8 cards (3-4 handed) only one low card will connect with any of the 5 community cards.

As a short stack in BB who just continued - that player is not expected to push the action.

The hand was interesting to me because of the passivity of the two other players. It's uncommon. A short stacks is expected to protect, play cautious and strike when they have the opportunity, and big stacks usually push the action.

 

[maxi_j]

If turn would come non "5" I would bet. In ypour run out X/X you have showdown value and only beter hands will call so you just wait. And fold to a bet.