Should sites confiscate funds for "unethical play"?

[fundiver199]

According to this post on another poker forum, ACR just stole 700$ from a player, who reportedly violated their TOS by deliberately delaying action in multitable tournaments AKA "stalling".

ACR Banned Me -- No warning! Stole $700 : poker (reddit.com)

I know, that a post like this might only tell part of the story, but even so I have a huge problem with a poker site prohibiting "unethical play" and then using it as an excuse to steal peoples money. First of all I think, that the worst possible sanction against "unethical play" should never be anything more than closing of peoples accounts with a full refund being made of any money sitting in the account. In this case they could tell the guy, that his slow play annoys their other customers and is against their TOS, and for this reason he is not welcome any more.

This would be ok, since a private company is allowed to refuse a customer for whatever reason, they like. But there is a huge difference between kicking someone out and stealing his money. That kind of sanction should be reserved for people, who clearly cheated for instance by colluding with other players or using illegal software like bots.

And second I do think, that this kind of TOS is pretty ridiculous. Easy technical solutions exist against everything, which ACR deem to be "unethical play":

* Bum hunting can be prevented by introducing randomized seating in cash games
* Rat Holing can be prevented by forcing people to buy in with the same amount of money, they left with
* Stalling can be limited by allocating less time to players to act preflop and/or increase the duration of hand for hand play

I think, its absolutely an obligation for poker sites to implement such simple technical solutions rather than ask players from refraining from "unethical play" and then at their own discretion use this as an excuse to steal peoples money. So until that happen, I will advice people to either not play on ACR or to only keep the absolut minimal amount of money required deposited on the site, even if this mean multible withdrawals and redeposits. Because basically with these terms and conditions, your funds are simply not safe on ACR.

Americas Cardroom

 

[vittopio]

I have been playing in this room for many years (and fortunately I have never had any problems with withdrawing or losing money), but this post made me very wary! When there is a ban and even more confiscation of funds for such vague reasons, it is always bad for the reputation of the room! I hope everything clears up!

 

[fundiver199]

For sure it would be nice to see the ACR rep come into this thread with a very good explanation for, what happened. However it still stands, that with these TOS depositing money on ACR is basically the same as giving them a license to steal your money at their random discretion. And the only thing holding them back from doing this is bad publicity in poker forums and social media etc.

 

[Trestivo]

I as a player do not see any problem in holding time to see the actions of other tables this to me is ICM strategy, it is part of the online game and I do without the slightest burden on conscience if a site considers it a fault I certainly will not keep my money on that site.

 

[CheezeWiz]

That is a Bit Concerning For Sure, however...

I am hoping that there is indeed more to the story. I have only played at ACR for less than a month, so do not have anything of value to add from my own experience, but I have enjoyed it and have had no negative experiences.

I certainly would never have dreamed that fully utilizing the allotted time bank would every be deemed to be "UNETHICAL"! Annoying to others, sure, I get that, but not unethical.

The first thing that comes to mind for me, is I wonder if this individual was deliberately disconnecting and reconnecting at crucial times to delay the play, so going beyond just the normal time clock utilization. Again, I have not played at ACR long enough to even know how this type of behavior might impact the play at the site. I will say I saw what might have been this type of thing on at least one occasion over the last month, but I cannot say whether it was at ACR or not. I would say, that if this was indeed the case, and the site personnel were able to see this occurring over and over again with some regularity, then I think they could be justified in confiscating the players funds.

Best of Luck at The Tables All!

CheezeWiz

 

[Alizona]

I was the person who posted that news about ACR confiscating money and banning a player over stalling.

I can no longer find the post on reddit, nor can I find the post I made here on Cards Chat.

[EDIT: I was looking in the wrong forum, here is the original post: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/using-thinking-time-when-almost-getting-475877/ ]

Aha, now I clicked on YOUR reddit link and I see the post has been deleted by the original poster.

So... my guess here is that the person who posted this news was lying about it, they probably did something that actually *IS* unethical and "illegal" but they may not have mentioned that part.

The other possibility here is that the player didn't do anything else wrong, but was given the option to get his funds back with one condition - that he delete his post since it gives ACR bad publicity. And perhaps he accepted that offer.

Whatever happened here, it sure was odd, that's all I can say. I had just gotten done telling the player who asked the Cards Chat community "Is stalling legal?" that it certainly IS legal, without any question... and Katie Dozier even liked my reply, so she agreed with my take on stalling. This is why we are given time banks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A very odd sequence of events, and as always, we can expect ACR will never offer us any explanation. Poker sites don't do that, they remain secretive and I guess that is their prerogative.

As everyone should realize and understand... and as stated above... we are playing on what are called "gray market" sites that exist outside the legal jursidiction of our home country, and thus, we are at the mercy of whatever the poker site decides to do, and we have almost no remedy whatsoever. Player beware!! Having said all that... I still play almost every day and I never worry about it... but then again, I know I'm doing nothing wrong, nothing unethical or immoral. Heck, I don't even run a HUD, and in today's modern age, that's really kinda dumb, it puts me at a distinct disadvantage... but that's just how I am. I'm an honest person living in a very DIShonest world... but I'm playing for peanuts, playing for pennies, I am certainly not playing poker to make a living. I literally play solely for the love of the game, which makes me an odd bird indeed. I long ago realized the wisdom of Paul's words to Timothy about the love of money being the root of all evil... I am poor and happy, which is a lot better than being rich and miserable.

 

[orsino12]

I don't see how they can say stalling is unethical. They give you x amount of time to act so you can use 1 second or all your time and if you go over they fold your hand.

I know it can be annoying, but I've done it myself in certain situations, usually if I'm very short stacked and if stalling could make the difference in getting past the bubble or the next level before being forced all-in.

 

[Alizona]

Just one more note to players: ACR does NOT appreciate any criticism.

Here's all the proof you should need:
https://www.cardschat.com/news/jonathan-little-americas-cardroom-phil-nagy-93764/

I fully expect the doom switch to be flipped on my account now, but oh well... LMAO (it's an inside joke from the early poker boom years, the DOOM SWITCH and the BOOM SWITCH lol)

If you truly care about your "poker career" on ACR, my advice is to not speak out against them publicly. Since I don't play poker for income, whatever happens happens, and my life will go on irregardless. I'm free to speak my mind!

 

[fundiver199]

Yeah the original post has been deleted, which as you say can have a number of different explanations. However it still stands, that the TOS of ACR are, as they are, and that they are frankly completely ridiculous and unacceptable. And this is way more important than, what actually happened to this particular player.

As several have said stalling can be anoying to some players, but its not against the rules of the game. And since everyone have the same amount of time, everyone can do it, so nobody can gain an "unfair" advantage. And the same can be said about "bum hunting" and "rat holing". Everyone can do that, so there is nothing "unfair" about it.

The real issue here is, that poker sites want to accomodate recreational players, which to some extend is fine. But when they do it by prohibiting "for profit" players from doing anything, which might annoy recreational players, and allow themselfes to steal the "for profit" players money at their own discretion, then its simply to much.

One have to ask, where this will stop? I am sure many recreational players find it annoying, when their limps or stupid donk min-bets get raised. So should this then also be considered "unethical" and result in a threat of having your money stolen by the poker site? And if not then what is the difference?

This issue also goes buyond ACR. GG Poker have similar TOS, and when confronted with this of course DNEG defended it, because they are paying him a bunch of money to do so. "But we never actually steal peoples money for doing bum hunting" DNEG said. Maybe not, but why then do you still ask people to sign a contract, which allow you to steal their money at your own discretion?

"Unethical play" according to ACR also includes abuse of the chat. And sure I can understand, that if I go crazy in the chat and verbally abuse other players, then the poker site might kick me out. That would also happen, if I go in a bar and do the same thing there. But what I dont expect is, that the bar will steal my coat and my bag containing my laptop and cellphone, which I left in the wardrobe before entering.

These items are rightfully mine, even I lost my temper inside the bar. And so are the money, which I deposited or won on a poker site. So this kind of TOS allowing the poker site to steal players money for all sorts of random bullshit reasons are just not acceptable. And I hope to have drawn a bit more attention to the issue with this post.

 

[TheBackpack]

I have destroyed the Omaha tables on pokerstars, and now 888.

This is what these guys do, they figure out ways to ban winning players.

Because literally what happens, is I go to Pokerstars, and I play Omaha, and all of these kids know that I will crush there soul, so they don't play. I end up sitting on Pokerstars literally playing heads up Omaha or sitting by myself, I clear out the tables.

There will be like 6 tables going, and I will join, and 15 minutes later nobody is playing.

This is obviously very bad for the Pokersite, so they try to find ways to ban your account, as you have destroyed the population, crushing way too hard.

Pokerstars try to do things, like only allow you to play 4 tables at once, or not reserve seats, but at the end of the day, they don't want some player coming in, and destroying there player population, because that player is too good.

So they open up there huge ToS/rulebook, and vigorously search for a reason to ban you.

So this player got wrecked, for being too good at the game, they decided to look into some weird rule, and steal his money for being a good player.

Guaranteed that's what happened.

 

[Uncloggie]

I will think twice about playing there, but I am tempted by the CC free rolls. Can anyone tell me how many people play the daily ACR Cards Chat freerolls, on average? On Pokerstars its around 240 every day

 

[Alizona]

I will think twice about playing there, but I am tempted by the CC free rolls. Can anyone tell me how many people play the daily ACR Cards Chat freerolls, on average? On Pokerstars its around 240 every day

I've only been a Cards Chat member for a few months, but if I recall correctly, the ACR Bronze freeroll today should exceed that 240 player amount. As a Platinum player myself, I think we get that many registering into the daily freerolls on ACR, so we should exceed it with all the silvers and bronzes too today.

There's no reason to be afraid of ACR at all, its a good site with large player pools. The only real caution is if you are playing for high stakes but I doubt most of us are. I play for pennies and try to work my way up from there, it's a blast. I highly recommend ACR despite isolated incidents raised in this thread. They are extremely uncommon and I pray it never happens to anyone here.

 

[fundiver199]

There's no reason to be afraid of ACR at all, its a good site with large player pools. The only real caution is if you are playing for high stakes but I doubt most of us are. I play for pennies and try to work my way up from there, it's a blast. I highly recommend ACR despite isolated incidents raised in this thread. They are extremely uncommon and I pray it never happens to anyone here.

Actually these incidences, where a poker site either freeze or close a players account for whatever reason, so that his funds are either permanently stolen by the site or unavailable for a long period of time, are fairly common. There are multible posts about it in CC forum. I singled out ACR in this post because of the Reddit post and the fact, I was truly chocked to read their TOS. But this happen on all the poker sites.

And sure there need to be some kind of sanction for people, who break the rules. But its fairly extreme, that even the most minor violation of some random rules, that people might not even have been aware about, allow the poker site to steal peoples money at their own discretion.

So my conclusion to this is, its simply not safe to have money deposited on any poker site. So as soon as you have any sort of significant winnings, then withdraw it and put it somewhere else! And only deposit, what you need for playing 2-3 days, like Jonathan Little suggested. If for instance you play 5$ MTTs on ACR, then dont keep 700$ sitting on the site. Keep 100$ sitting on the site and only deposit more, if its needed. In this way, should ACR decide to steal your money, then at least you still have 600$ left.

 

[Ice Wolf]

As everyone should realize and understand... and as stated above... we are playing on what are called "gray market" sites that exist outside the legal jursidiction of our home country, and thus, we are at the mercy of whatever the poker site decides to do, and we have almost no remedy whatsoever. Player beware!! Having said all that... I still play almost every day and I never worry about it... but then again, I know I'm doing nothing wrong, nothing unethical or immoral. Heck, I don't even run a HUD, and in today's modern age, that's really kinda dumb, it puts me at a distinct disadvantage... but that's just how I am. I'm an honest person living in a very DIShonest world... but I'm playing for peanuts, playing for pennies, I am certainly not playing poker to make a living. I literally play solely for the love of the game, which makes me an odd bird indeed. I long ago realized the wisdom of Paul's words to Timothy about the love of money being the root of all evil... I am poor and happy, which is a lot better than being rich and miserable.

Alizona you haven't been around very long but I really like a lot of what you have to say and tend to agree with most of your philosophies. I don't get why he would have been banned either for typical use of the clock, he had to have intentionally played around with the disconnection time. Anyone know if it reloads every hour like the 15 seconds added back to the time bank? The guys original comments were deleted on the site but if you extend the comments he still post the "email" that they sent him saying what he did wrong so it's not like it's entirely gone, now whether that is the entire email or not is a different story.

I also noticed that Little's account was refunded in full so I don't know why the $700 wouldn't be refunded also.

 

[fundiver199]

I don't get why he would have been banned either for typical use of the clock, he had to have intentionally played around with the disconnection time.

"5.5 Stalling: Deliberating delaying the action in a game to gain an advantage over your opponents on different tables from the same tournament"

If you let the clock run fully down before every decision AKA "stalling", that it certainly "deliberately delaying the action". So it has nothing to do with deliberately disconnecting to activate some sort of disconnection protection, which the poker site might offer. Deliberately disconnecting is generally against the TOS of poker sites, that offer disconnection protection, and in my opinion that is fair.

I also noticed that Little's account was refunded in full so I don't know why the $700 wouldn't be refunded also.

Jonathan Little did not break any of the TOS, so ACR had no excuse to steal his money. They kicked him out simply for (in their mind) speaking badly about the company to his audience.

This guy almost certainly did break the TOS, and probably also in a less innocent way, than he claim. Stalling is after all a common strategy, which a lot of players use. So at most he was perhaps unaware of the TOS. Its also entirely possible, that ACR game him back his money, and that this might be why, he deleted his post.

Its not even completely clear from the email, he shared, that they were going to keep his money. So maybe that was just his initial impression, and later it was clarified. However it still stands, that the TOS does allow ACR to keep his money in a situation like this. And how many people actually know this, when they decide to keep money on the site? This is the real issue, which once again I want to point peoples attention to.

Even if someone is actually caught cheating, it is very questionable in my opinion, that it is up to the poker site to decide, if they want to steal his money. In which other parts of society do we allow such things to happen, where one private party can randomly decide to steal the money of another private party? As far as I know none.

So maybe its time, that it also stops in online poker! If someone is caught cheating in a serious way, then the case should be handed over to the police, and then it should be up to the legal system to decide the consequences including confiscation of possible winnings. And if its a minor case not worth wasting authorities time on, then just kick people out, so they can not continue their cheating.

My main point here is, that when someone deposit money on a poker site, that does not suddenly make those money the property of the poker site. They still belong to the player, and poker sites should not be allowed to randomly steal them for whatever reason, they want. And as long as poker sites continue to feel, that this is a reasonable way to threat their customers, then dont trust them to hold your money! As I said already, keep as little as possible deposited on each site, where you play.

 

[fundiver199]

Here is the full content of point 5 in the TOS of ACR. I encourage people to take their time to read it and fully take in, what it means.

5. Unethical behavior:

5.0 WPN reserves the right to deem some gameplay behavior as systematic predatory practices, which are unethical and detrimental to our poker community. Such predatory practices are strongly discouraged and players who engage in them may be penalized by WPN in its sole discretion, as listed in the 1.5 penalties section.
WPN considers the following predatory practices to be prohibited, including but not limited to the following:
5.1 Grimming: The practice to consistently play the small blind (SB) and skip the big blind (BB).
5.2 Ratholing: The practice of intentionally leaving a table and returning with a smaller amount of chips shortly after.
5.3 Bumhunting: The practice of over-targeting a certain player population, or a specific player.
5.4 Chat abuse: The practice of either disclosing hand in play information or suggestions, as well the verbal, offensive abuse.
5.5 Stalling: Deliberating delaying the action in a game to gain an advantage over your opponents on different tables from the same tournament
5.6 Penalties resulting on verified violation of this section are detailed in the 1.5 Penalties section

 

[Alizona]

I found my own solution to all of this years ago... my own USA Federal Government pretty much forced my hand, they forced me into this approach... as most poker players probably know by now, way back on April 15, 2011, the USA Department of Justice seized the web domains of the major online poker sites at the time (poker stars and others) and shut down our FREEDOM to play on whichever poker site we choose to play on. To this very day, almost a full decade later, we are STILL not allowed to play on the major poker sites.

So back to my point... since my government clearly doesn't want us to have the freedom to move money onto and off of the poker sites, and since I don't do the whole bitcoin thing... I decided I would make a fun game of poker. You see, I have never played poker to make money, I'm kind of weird like that because almost all poker players have a solitary goal to "win money". But I don't. I play poker because I love to play poker! Imagine that?! LOL

So a few years ago I decided to make an account on the so-called "gray market" sites like ACR and then also BetOnline, and I also decided that I would only play freerolls and try to win a little money from those, and then use those small funds to try and grow my bankroll. It has been a very successful strategy, by being patient and dedicated, I have built up a nice bankroll on both sites which allows me to play in the normal tournaments and escape that freeroll grind (and it sure is a grind, no doubt about it).

I also decided I will never withdraw my funds either. For one, I never want to have "income" and be forced to pay tax on that income to a government I believe does not have my best interests at heart, given the example they set on Black Friday, and given their lack of remedy over this past decade. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT US. So I am certainly not going to reward them via my tax tithe. And also, since I don't do bitcoin (can't be bothered with another fake fiat currency without any tangible value, we already have the US Dollar which is the same thing LOL), I really have no way to withdraw my funds off the sites anyway. But so what? My only goal is to run it up as high as I can, use my experience to become a good poker player who uses good bankroll management to succeed... and I will be very satisfied to leave it at that.

I highly recommend this approach to others. Naturally, you can withdraw funds, you don't have to be like me. But realize, the poker sites are going to make it extremely difficult for you to do so. They don't want you to take money off the site when you've never deposited... they seem to dislike that very much. So they put conditions on any withdrawls, such as, you must have generated a large amount of rake for the site, earned them income off the money they "gave you" (via the freerolls), and over the years I have learned those requirements can be very difficult to meet... so I have no intention to even try. I've made a fun challenge out of poker for myself, many players call this approach the "Zero To Hero Challenge", and it has been an absolute joy to grind it out. I am extremely thankful to ACR specifically, because they run the BEST freerolls of any site, and its not even close. ACR is terrific to players like myself. I know some of my words here might appear negative towards them, but my honest feelings is indeed that ACR is terrific... but realize, I have NOTHING at risk here! None of the money is mine... so your opinion of the site may differ from mine. And that's fair. Hope that helps anyone reading my words. This was my solution to this whole "money" thing that causes so many problems in our world. I still don't really understand why the US Government seized the web domains, and they have never bothered to explain it to us. Utterly ridiculous... but it is what it is. And we move on. Best wishes to all poker players!

 

[fundiver199]

I found my own solution to all of this years ago... my own USA Federal Government pretty much forced my hand, they forced me into this approach... as most poker players probably know by now, way back on April 15, 2011, the USA Department of Justice seized the web domains of the major online poker sites at the time (Poker Stars and others) and shut down our FREEDOM to play on whichever poker site we choose to play on. To this very day, almost a full decade later, we are STILL not allowed to play on the major poker sites.

So back to my point... since my government clearly doesn't want us to have the freedom to move money onto and off of the poker sites, and since I don't do the whole bitcoin thing... I decided I would make a fun game of poker. You see, I have never played poker to make money, I'm kind of weird like that because almost all poker players have a solitary goal to "win money". But I don't. I play poker because I love to play poker! Imagine that?! LOL

So a few years ago I decided to make an account on the so-called "gray market" sites like ACR and then also BetOnline, and I also decided that I would only play freerolls and try to win a little money from those, and then use those small funds to try and grow my bankroll. It has been a very successful strategy, by being patient and dedicated, I have built up a nice bankroll on both sites which allows me to play in the normal tournaments and escape that freeroll grind (and it sure is a grind, no doubt about it).

I also decided I will never withdraw my funds either. For one, I never want to have "income" and be forced to pay tax on that income to a government I believe does not have my best interests at heart, given the example they set on Black Friday, and given their lack of remedy over this past decade. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT US. So I am certainly not going to reward them via my tax tithe. And also, since I don't do bitcoin (can't be bothered with another fake fiat currency without any tangible value, we already have the US Dollar which is the same thing LOL), I really have no way to withdraw my funds off the sites anyway. But so what? My only goal is to run it up as high as I can, use my experience to become a good poker player who uses good bankroll management to succeed... and I will be very satisfied to leave it at that.

I highly recommend this approach to others. Naturally, you can withdraw funds, you don't have to be like me. But realize, the poker sites are going to make it extremely difficult for you to do so. They don't want you to take money off the site when you've never deposited... they seem to dislike that very much. So they seem to put conditions on any withdrawls, such as, you must have generated a large amount of rake for the site, earned them income off the money they "gave you" (via the freerolls), and over the years I have learned those requirements can be very difficult to meet... so I have no intention to even try. I've made a fun challenge out of poker for myself, many players call this approach the "Zero To Hero Challenge", and it has been an absolute joy to grind it out. I am extremely thankful to ACR specifically, because they run the BEST freerolls of any site, and its not even close. ACR is terrific to players like myself. I know some of my words here might appear negative towards them, but my honest feelings is indeed that ACR is terrific... but realize, I have NOTHING at risk here! None of the money is mine... so your opinion of the site may differ from mine. And that's fair. Hope that helps anyone reading my words. This was my solution to this whole "money" thing that causes so many problems in our world. I still don't really understand why the US Government seized the web domains, and they have never bothered to explain it to us. Utterly ridiculous... but it is what it is. And we move on. Best wishes to all poker players!

If you enjoy, what you are doing, that is obviously fine. But if you never intent to withdraw, then in principle you might as well be playing on Zynga Poker for play money. I by the way did that, before I started playing for real money.

 

[redsfan]

There will always be problems,and things that happen when you play online poker.If your a USA player,i have never seen much recourse for players that have legit problems.Sites can do whatever they want.This is why it is critical to legalize online poker in the US.We have horse racing online wagering,which i have done for years,with no problems what so ever.Deposits,and with drawls are a breeze.Money goes in instant,and you get your money when ever you want in a matter of 1-3 days.If they want to keep there licence,they do whats right.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Title seems a tad extreme based on someone who's deleted their own 'sketchy' post on reddit.

 

[Ice Wolf]

"5.5 Stalling: Deliberating delaying the action in a game to gain an advantage over your opponents on different tables from the same tournament"

If you let the clock run fully down before every decision AKA "stalling", that it certainly "deliberately delaying the action". So it has nothing to do with deliberately disconnecting to activate some sort of disconnection protection, which the poker site might offer.

My point was agreeing with Alizona, if you are going to boot him for this you are going to have to boot 50% or more of micro stakes players who do the exact same thing.

 

[DS3]

This entire episode/rule is bizarre.

I can remember when someone pointed out that you could be banned from ACR for stalling I was shocked. Like most, I do not stall but for being short stacked near the bubble....with one exception.

We have all played in a tourney where one big stack starts acting so belligerently (massive raises or going all in hand after hand) that the entire table sits out. I don't but will run the clock down every hand until I hit the time bank. Its all you can do until the table potentially gets be broken up. When I read about the stalling rule I therefore thought it absurd.

In any case, you can only stall so much once you have used the time bank itself so it feels an unnecessary rule/stipulation. Why? because after a year in ACR I have not once seen anyone run the clock down on each and every decision they have made. Not once.

Can you imagine the uproar this would create if anyone tried to impose this at the wsop for instance?

As for the side issue of Jonathan Little, he got what was coming to him because he relentlessly knocked the site whilst streaming. For an intelligent guy a stupid way to go about his business

 

[fundiver199]

Title seems a tad extreme based on someone who's deleted their own 'sketchy' post on reddit.

Have you read those TOS, which I copy-pasted into the thread at 4:36 pm today? For me these TOS fully justify my "extreme" title.

 

[fundiver199]

I can remember when someone pointed out that you could be banned from ACR for stalling I was shocked.

And not just for stalling. You can get banned and ultimately have your money stolen by ACR for anything, which ACR deem to be "systematic predatory practices, which are unethical and detrimental to our poker community". Which can basically be anything, which they feel is not good for their profit. Note for instance that the list includes "the practice of over-targeting a certain player population". I guess, this basically mean, that if you are a winning player, then you are not allowed to play to much in the same games, because that might scare losing players away and hurt ACRs profits.

 

[antonis32123]

Here is the full content of point 5 in the TOS of ACR. I encourage people to take their time to read it and fully take in, what it means.

5. Unethical behavior:

5.0 WPN reserves the right to deem some gameplay behavior as systematic predatory practices, which are unethical and detrimental to our poker community. Such predatory practices are strongly discouraged and players who engage in them may be penalized by WPN in its sole discretion, as listed in the 1.5 penalties section.
WPN considers the following predatory practices to be prohibited, including but not limited to the following:
5.1 Grimming: The practice to consistently play the small blind (SB) and skip the big blind (BB).
5.2 Ratholing: The practice of intentionally leaving a table and returning with a smaller amount of chips shortly after.
5.3 Bumhunting: The practice of over-targeting a certain player population, or a specific player.
5.4 Chat abuse: The practice of either disclosing hand in play information or suggestions, as well the verbal, offensive abuse.
5.5 Stalling: Deliberating delaying the action in a game to gain an advantage over your opponents on different tables from the same tournament
5.6 Penalties resulting on verified violation of this section are detailed in the 1.5 Penalties section

This part of ACR TOS , also you can see similar in othr poker rooms , such as PS , 888poker , partypoker , GGpoker or the smaller ones , let's not try to compare each other , which is best , which is more fair .

So , better create a thread for ALL poker rooms , and their TOS , and talk about this overuse of power they make in such occassions , about stalling or bumhunting or other practices by poker players that are regarded by poker rooms (and maybe not only) as unethical , and take severe actions against them when they want , case sensitive , meaning on each case judging differently , measering benefits and disadvantages , profits and losses . That would be good .

Now firing at ACR only , based on a reddit post , which was deleted by his poster , it seems no good to me . Why didn't he go to a poker forum , our forum CardsChat , or 2+2 , to talk about this with its members , or even an ACR rep ?? I don't get it . I said in the past my opinion about stalling or bumhunting , I won't repeat them here as well , as we have no OP CC member here with official comlaint to help him , against ACR or other poker room , so as to help him get his money back or get justice .Also no great publicized scandal in the news or in the forums , for sure confirmed incident (not caring if he's CC member or not , but that his case is real ) . Here we have a case in the lost and found , without a father , his father has renounced its authenticity , lol .


.