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OnTilt902
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It doesn't really matter if they admitted to cheating or if they admit that cheating took place on their site. I don't trust putting any money on a site that we know is vulnerable to such attacks. On the other hand, I guess it could happen to other sites as well. That's why I don't play high stakes. 
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uncc40niners
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I believe all poker sites have to have an edge to make their money, and maybe they can track how someone will redeposit after losing their money. The big money makers make the site a lot of money.
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donizhere
Rock Star
Silver Level
If it's true and your a big money player on Ultimatebet, i suggest you file a lawsuit or something.
Saying that i find no reason why poker companies should steal, they make so much money from rakes and buy in fee's.
Saying that i find no reason why poker companies should steal, they make so much money from rakes and buy in fee's.
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chadherczeg
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Its crazy that so many sites are coming out with info like this. Absolute had the same thing happen last year. It is rediculous that this even goes on. Greed is an ugly thing and it hurts all of us because less fish are going to come play online poker because they are afraid they are being cheated so the majority of us good players have to take the punishment of some derelict's behavior. If only we could figure out for their to be legal punishment for doing these things then maybe it would quit happening. I would like to strap an M80 to these guys's balls and watch them squirm before it explodes. Okay that was a little demented but you get my jist none the less. Hopefully poker sites will get wise soon and we won't have this problem any more.
CAPT. ZIGZAG
Legend
Silver Level
This is why I don't play online for real money.
Software has holes. It can't be helped. Hackers will always figure out how to break in. It's just not that hard.
I have several hacker/programmer friends who beg me to let them do that for me. They just want the rush.
One of them is the guy who wrote the RNG for the California lottery. This guy knows RNG's intimately, and is the reason why I always disagree with anybody who says the online poker RNG's are right. They are not right. I know this for a fact from a higher authority. They can't be made to be right either.
To make you guys believe me is fruitless. None the less, I will continue to rail the RNG's.
Any halfway good hacker can hack these sites. And they do. Regularly.
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Software has holes. It can't be helped. Hackers will always figure out how to break in. It's just not that hard.
I have several hacker/programmer friends who beg me to let them do that for me. They just want the rush.
One of them is the guy who wrote the RNG for the California lottery. This guy knows RNG's intimately, and is the reason why I always disagree with anybody who says the online poker RNG's are right. They are not right. I know this for a fact from a higher authority. They can't be made to be right either.
To make you guys believe me is fruitless. None the less, I will continue to rail the RNG's.
Any halfway good hacker can hack these sites. And they do. Regularly.
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CrushedFlush
Rising Star
Bronze Level
All the recent news about cheating at UB just covers up the real SCAM
The real scam at UB has nothing to do with the cheating players. The REAL scam involves the RNG they developed themselves. Which has NEVER been audited or checked for consistency and fairness by a third party.
Other sites like pokerstars uses an industry standard RNG and has been audited more then once. As a matter of fact, I do not know of ANY other poker sites using their own RNG. Hmmmmm...
- 4FlushCrush:dontknow:
The real scam at UB has nothing to do with the cheating players. The REAL scam involves the RNG they developed themselves. Which has NEVER been audited or checked for consistency and fairness by a third party.
Other sites like pokerstars uses an industry standard RNG and has been audited more then once. As a matter of fact, I do not know of ANY other poker sites using their own RNG. Hmmmmm...
- 4FlushCrush:dontknow:
kidkvno1
Sarah's Pet
Bronze Level
I tell you i don't mind,. and i will tell you why.
They found the cheating and are making it right by giving the money back, also they took out the hole so it can't be done again...
I think i will still play there, i also tend to play there more then any outer site.....
By the way did AP even give back the money????
RickH2005
Legend
Silver Level
UB AGAIN!!
These allagations have been going on for quite awhile--YES--UB admits that they were hacked into by ex-employees last winter, I think. They were from mostly the higher stakes tables--and since then, a HUGE investigation has been going on and the new owners have assured everybody that everything is being done that can be done to rectify the situatio---The cheating has since stiopped! As far as getting your money back, I highly doubt it! If you expect UB to give you lost money back then every site you ever lost money on should do the same! Last March UB refunded me $10, called it a 'mass refund', they returned different amounts to people who played at the time the cheating was going on, depending on the limits they played at--the higher the limits--the more the refund--so, I really don't think there's too much to worry about at UB anymore. If there was, CC wouldn't be involved with them any more, don't ya think?
RickH2005
Legend
Silver Level
RickH2005
Legend
Silver Level
Just noticed........
I just noticed when this thread was started!! LAST MAY right after this whole UB thing came out!! So it really is no longer relavent as UB has since pretty much resolved the issue!
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azbo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I'm a programmer and the way they describe the RNG on UB is about as random as possible. They don't create the decks ahead of time so each random number being served is dependent on the random numbers being served on other tables. Beyond the computerized random number generation this adds a human element no one can predict or control. If there's 3000 decks of cards out there and each person is taking more or less time deciding to bet or not then the order that your tables card will be served is pretty random. Coupled with the seed coming from some form of "white noise" signal (which is pretty random in itself) and them randomly taking the seeds off different stacks as well, if they're actually doing it this way I feel pretty safe that the cards are completely random.
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azbo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
This is the kind of nonsense that starts rumors/wives tales.
If any reasonably good hacker could be doing this, the russian mafia would be taking ALL the money. They have terrific hackers, not reasonably good ones.
The RNG's are not perfect but oddly enough the description of Ultimatebet's seems pretty outstanding. I can't vouch they actually do it the way they say they do but people always want a reason to whine. 4 outs is almost 9% and so 1 time in 11 a 4 out hand is going to hit. You always remember when it does hit and people get all emotional about it but the reality is if you see enough hands you're going to see a lot of long odds hands land. Online poker serves up a lot of hands. The deals are fast, you can be on multiple tables, there's a lot of loose calls, it's the perfect setup to see bad beats. It's not the RNG it's pure chance and whining about it doesn't change it, it only makes you seem a little weak willed or bad at math.
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azbo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
what does WAI mean?
"if you're not bored you're not playing right" = now that's the most reasonable thing I ever read on a poker forum.
"if you're not bored you're not playing right" = now that's the most reasonable thing I ever read on a poker forum.
ZZFLOP
Rock Star
Silver Level
Azbo I have a question that you as a programmer might think of as really stupid but than again I'm a digital retard. Is there software available to see youre opponent holecards and if not can this be developped ?
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azbo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It depends on the software. If the card data is being passed to all clients and just held in reserve for the showdown then yes. The secure way to handle this is to only pass the hole card info from the server to the client at the end of the hand when the showdown happens.
Some software will encrypt all the data packets that are being sent so that you can't simply interecept that data but anything that can be encrypted can possibly be decrypted and since the key to decrypting must be included (if it's keyed pairs encryption like pgp and gpg which have a public and private key). There is software that will analyze what other software is doing during every clock cycle and they (hackers) can attempt to reverse engineer out the source code or the location of the key or decryption algorythm and thus see the holecards.
when you hear about software being developed that allows something like this they're usually refering to an application that would run and then run the game software inside it (like a shell) thus all the data being sent to and from the game client is first seen by the "shell". Over time with the right tools and analysis you would be able to see what the packets look like and thus possibly decipher when the card info was being sent and then it's a matter of time and clock cycles to break it open. Everytime someone at the table makes a bet or folds a data packet is sent to all the clients informing them of the change in "state" and the GUI (graphical user interface) displays this change.
Hopefully the superuser software prompted the server to return all the hole cards to a certain client and wasn't just a backdoor to "display" the data that was already sent. It's very hard to "hack the server" without being detected so if the card data is held until the showdown the software is much more secure than if it is held by the clients and not displayed.
This isn't my area of expertise and there maybe a reason pertaining to the load on the server that they want to transfer all the card data to the clients early and have the clients hold it in reserve it's not how I would guess they do it. My gut feeling is that the effort required to encrypt all the data would be the bigger load than being able to send tiny packets containing just the card id numbers in the open.
The superuser software concerns me though since making the hole cards visible with a superuser account is a LOT easier to implement if the data is already present than it is by changing the amount of data being sent to a superuser account. That being said I guess if you had a superuser account it could just trigger one more transaction per hand immediately after the deal where the server would upload the entire set of hole cards to the SU instead of just one set.
Some software will encrypt all the data packets that are being sent so that you can't simply interecept that data but anything that can be encrypted can possibly be decrypted and since the key to decrypting must be included (if it's keyed pairs encryption like pgp and gpg which have a public and private key). There is software that will analyze what other software is doing during every clock cycle and they (hackers) can attempt to reverse engineer out the source code or the location of the key or decryption algorythm and thus see the holecards.
when you hear about software being developed that allows something like this they're usually refering to an application that would run and then run the game software inside it (like a shell) thus all the data being sent to and from the game client is first seen by the "shell". Over time with the right tools and analysis you would be able to see what the packets look like and thus possibly decipher when the card info was being sent and then it's a matter of time and clock cycles to break it open. Everytime someone at the table makes a bet or folds a data packet is sent to all the clients informing them of the change in "state" and the GUI (graphical user interface) displays this change.
Hopefully the superuser software prompted the server to return all the hole cards to a certain client and wasn't just a backdoor to "display" the data that was already sent. It's very hard to "hack the server" without being detected so if the card data is held until the showdown the software is much more secure than if it is held by the clients and not displayed.
This isn't my area of expertise and there maybe a reason pertaining to the load on the server that they want to transfer all the card data to the clients early and have the clients hold it in reserve it's not how I would guess they do it. My gut feeling is that the effort required to encrypt all the data would be the bigger load than being able to send tiny packets containing just the card id numbers in the open.
The superuser software concerns me though since making the hole cards visible with a superuser account is a LOT easier to implement if the data is already present than it is by changing the amount of data being sent to a superuser account. That being said I guess if you had a superuser account it could just trigger one more transaction per hand immediately after the deal where the server would upload the entire set of hole cards to the SU instead of just one set.