ACR recently brought in online crusher Randy Lew to help with security and the never ending battle to stop bots. I really like their latest update that deals with graphics and them changing every time a player sits which makes it (supposedly) impossible for bots to function. I’d like to know how the CC community feels ACR is doing in their quest to extinguish bots?

I would like to see more transparency on the number of accounts banned and where they are coming from and what games they are playing.

Overall I think it's good but we need some data to confirm

Originally Posted by fishfood80

ACR recently brought in online crusher Randy Lew to help with security and the never ending battle to stop bots. I really like their latest update that deals with graphics and them changing every time a player sits which makes it (supposedly) impossible for bots to function. I’d like to know how the CC community feels ACR is doing in their quest to extinguish bots?

They haven't done jack about it, and never will. I am getting CRUSHED by bots and I am FURIOUS. The calls they make and the suckouts that come are unbelievable.

I have been tracking all of the All In's in the last couple of days, and out of 25/15 ended in some crazy turn river or 2outter river...

I am perplexed how so many smart people can be in denial of bots and/or funny software. Why is this so taboo to talk about? There are bots, and the absolute most incentive to use them comes from the poker sites themselves. I am so brokenhearted by poker lately, I used to be in denial of the bots, fiercely, but I cannot deny reality.

It seems that instead of wanting to talk about bots, how many there are, and how there isn't a way to prove the software is legit, I just get a lot of "oh it's just variance, it happens" and "just play more hands the numbers will work out eventually"... I get that bad runs happen, I get that it can go on for a long time, but there is a difference between bad runs, and noticing some "players" suckout with marginal hands repeatedly. There is a difference between other players getting lucky, and that other player getting lucky on you every time. I've stopped counting the amount of times I've had AA or KK cracked by total garbage mere places from the money. I have lost count of the time I have had AA or KK or QQ at cash tables, and NEVER getting any actions, UNLESS I'm about to get sucked out.

Why can't we just talk about it?
Ako Vs 77 I 3x, they call
Flop KT8 I raise , they reraise, I jam, they SNAP call
Turn A SO I had 90% on the flop, Turn top 2, makes like 95%....
River... Do i even have to say it? 7.

I have flopped 3 rainbow straights and was called all in the flop each time and lost to turn river flushes and full house....

I had 4 flushes on wednesday. 2 K high flushes that lost to A high, one baby flush that lost to higher, and a NUT flush that lost to river quads. Flush over flush is only like 3% of the time and quads is like never, yet there goes another days BR in coolers and

Keep in mind, this is not even close to all of the bad beats or coolers, AND this is just the last couple of days.

Again, I get it, bad beats happen, but day in, day out, getting called with junk on boards that dont connect at all and turn river or river.... I am trying not to lose my sanity or love for the game!

Originally Posted by SuiGeneris89

I am perplexed how so many smart people can be in denial of bots and/or funny software. Why is this so taboo to talk about? There are bots, and the absolute most incentive to use them comes from the poker sites themselves. I am so brokenhearted by poker lately, I used to be in denial of the bots, fiercely, but I cannot deny reality.

It seems that instead of wanting to talk about bots, how many there are, and how there isn't a way to prove the software is legit, I just get a lot of "oh it's just variance, it happens" and "just play more hands the numbers will work out eventually"... I get that bad runs happen, I get that it can go on for a long time, but there is a difference between bad runs, and noticing some "players" suckout with marginal hands repeatedly. There is a difference between other players getting lucky, and that other player getting lucky on you every time. I've stopped counting the amount of times I've had AA or KK cracked by total garbage mere places from the money. I have lost count of the time I have had AA or KK or QQ at cash tables, and NEVER getting any actions, UNLESS I'm about to get sucked out.

Why can't we just talk about it?
Ako Vs 77 I 3x, they call
Flop KT8 I raise , they reraise, I jam, they SNAP call
Turn A SO I had 90% on the flop, Turn top 2, makes like 95%....
River... Do i even have to say it? 7.

I have flopped 3 rainbow straights and was called all in the flop each time and lost to turn river flushes and full house....

I had 4 flushes on wednesday. 2 K high flushes that lost to A high, one baby flush that lost to higher, and a NUT flush that lost to river quads. Flush over flush is only like 3% of the time and quads is like never, yet there goes another days BR in coolers and

Keep in mind, this is not even close to all of the bad beats or coolers, AND this is just the last couple of days.

Again, I get it, bad beats happen, but day in, day out, getting called with junk on boards that dont connect at all and turn river or river.... I am trying not to lose my sanity or love for the game!

Hey SuiGeneris,
You haven't left a word for me to say. I always told complainers to be patient, to play their best and that variance is part of the game etc... But lately, I start doubting this whole thing myself. It's REALLY TOO MUCH. I don't even want to go through the never ending suckouts and runner runner situations, but I can't help mentioning this hand and you tell me if it's funny, coincidental, weird or whatever...
I raised on CO with AK.
SB, Lag, called.
Flop : K,6,2 rainbow. He bets half.
I raised 3 times his bet. He called.
Turn : A. He bets about the third. I shoved. Snap called.
River : 7.

Originally Posted by fishfood80

ACR recently brought in online crusher Randy Lew to help with security and the never ending battle to stop bots. I really like their latest update that deals with graphics and them changing every time a player sits which makes it (supposedly) impossible for bots to function. I’d like to know how the CC community feels ACR is doing in their quest to extinguish bots?

Fight bots? so it is the acr company that plants these bots, what are you talking about in general about which bots? Bots are a program launched by the company where you play au.

Originally Posted by najisami

Hey SuiGeneris,
You haven't left a word for me to say. I always told complainers to be patient, to play their best and that variance is part of the game etc... But lately, I start doubting this whole thing myself. It's REALLY TOO MUCH. I don't even want to go through the never ending suckouts and runner runner situations, but I can't help mentioning this hand and you tell me if it's funny, coincidental, weird or whatever...
I raised on CO with AK.
SB, Lag, called.
Flop : K,6,2 rainbow. He bets half.
I raised 3 times his bet. He called.
Turn : A. He bets about the third. I shoved. Snap called.
River : 7.

DEJAVU!!!

Originally Posted by najisami

Hey SuiGeneris,
You haven't left a word for me to say. I always told complainers to be patient, to play their best and that variance is part of the game etc... But lately, I start doubting this whole thing myself. It's REALLY TOO MUCH. I don't even want to go through the never ending suckouts and runner runner situations, but I can't help mentioning this hand and you tell me if it's funny, coincidental, weird or whatever...
I raised on CO with AK.
SB, Lag, called.
Flop : K,6,2 rainbow. He bets half.
I raised 3 times his bet. He called.
Turn : A. He bets about the third. I shoved. Snap called.
River : 7.

where do you play?? was it CASH or a Tournie?? sounds like it's built in!

Originally Posted by SuiGeneris89

where do you play?? was it CASH or a Tournie?? sounds like it's built in!

$4.40 tourney on PS. You would think that people would play a little more seriously than in a freeroll though it's not really a significant buy-in, but it's almost the same thing in the micros and the low stakes.

Originally Posted by SuiGeneris89

I am perplexed how so many smart people can be in denial of bots and/or funny software. Why is this so taboo to talk about? There are bots, and the absolute most incentive to use them comes from the poker sites themselves. I am so brokenhearted by poker lately, I used to be in denial of the bots, fiercely, but I cannot deny reality.

It seems that instead of wanting to talk about bots, how many there are, and how there isn't a way to prove the software is legit, I just get a lot of "oh it's just variance, it happens" and "just play more hands the numbers will work out eventually"... I get that bad runs happen, I get that it can go on for a long time, but there is a difference between bad runs, and noticing some "players" suckout with marginal hands repeatedly. There is a difference between other players getting lucky, and that other player getting lucky on you every time. I've stopped counting the amount of times I've had AA or KK cracked by total garbage mere places from the money. I have lost count of the time I have had AA or KK or QQ at cash tables, and NEVER getting any actions, UNLESS I'm about to get sucked out.

Why can't we just talk about it?
Ako Vs 77 I 3x, they call
Flop KT8 I raise , they reraise, I jam, they SNAP call
Turn A SO I had 90% on the flop, Turn top 2, makes like 95%....
River... Do i even have to say it? 7.

I have flopped 3 rainbow straights and was called all in the flop each time and lost to turn river flushes and full house....

I had 4 flushes on wednesday. 2 K high flushes that lost to A high, one baby flush that lost to higher, and a NUT flush that lost to river quads. Flush over flush is only like 3% of the time and quads is like never, yet there goes another days BR in coolers and

Keep in mind, this is not even close to all of the bad beats or coolers, AND this is just the last couple of days.

Again, I get it, bad beats happen, but day in, day out, getting called with junk on boards that dont connect at all and turn river or river.... I am trying not to lose my sanity or love for the game!

Yeah, man! Looks like we are similar type, I see everywhere the 'poker mainstream' crap: variance, happens, these things get balanced by the time etc. Of course, it is not bad, as it keeps the massive losers in the game, on the other side, we both know, it has no business, connection to practice, reality.

I am just waiting for the next crazy run vs. me, as the weeks, months long insanity looks like took a break in the last few days.

I know, probably you counted out the chance of runs - doesn't matter you compare to the count of dealt hands or time -, you get the result too often, that it should happen once in years or lifetime. That's the nuts. Nobody wants to talk about it. Even it is reality, it happens, it exists. Like bots, and even acr acknowledge the problem - other sites don't even do that -, can't really sort it out, how the collusion playing problem.

Until, I write in any search engine: "poker+bot+price+any site" and I get results with feedbacks etc through long pages nothing will happen, anyway, I do not know how the search engines - okay, I know, it is about money nothing else -, big companies let it happen, don't talk about official orgs, as they sell programs what usage can bring legal actions... if you think it through, you reach the result, probably everybody get their share in that little pyramid. Obviously, if the poker sites don't do any legal action protect their business - not even against these sites - you must suppose by common sense, simply logic, they are involved, or run their own ones...

About acr, it is good, but they have a 25K refund limit, the highest refund because of bots, what about i read was over 800K, i think, that was partypoker.... so it can go really serious... but example ps, never read about a single one + collusion there + rng insanity (as we don't have official name for the crazy, mathematically almost impossible runs)

And yes, bad beats happen, it is not about that. 10+ years ago, it wasn't part of online poker, or at least i didn't experience it in the nowadays level.... have to 'pick up' the insanity, plenty times, I play based on the hud hand monitoring + apply some strange - similar like blackjack, roulette - variance count, as it works, somehow matching with rngs random part.... - as i saw, most profitable guys do it - nothing about poker, poker probability, odds, variance, really nothing -, and in nowadays fields i can't get FT without this new-wave online poker play - in this month, i think i had 30-40 FT, nearly half of these wouldn't happen without forget real poker and focus for the 'online', 'rng based' poker.... you wouldn't believe what details, things I keep track, monitor and count on, not so many about poker....

Well you talking about superuser. Think its abit different topic of can you trust Poker sites or not

Originally Posted by SuiGeneris89

I am perplexed how so many smart people can be in denial of bots and/or funny software. Why is this so taboo to talk about? There are bots, and the absolute most incentive to use them comes from the poker sites themselves. I am so brokenhearted by poker lately, I used to be in denial of the bots, fiercely, but I cannot deny reality.

It seems that instead of wanting to talk about bots, how many there are, and how there isn't a way to prove the software is legit, I just get a lot of "oh it's just variance, it happens" and "just play more hands the numbers will work out eventually"... I get that bad runs happen, I get that it can go on for a long time, but there is a difference between bad runs, and noticing some "players" suckout with marginal hands repeatedly. There is a difference between other players getting lucky, and that other player getting lucky on you every time. I've stopped counting the amount of times I've had AA or KK cracked by total garbage mere places from the money. I have lost count of the time I have had AA or KK or QQ at cash tables, and NEVER getting any actions, UNLESS I'm about to get sucked out.

Why can't we just talk about it?
Ako Vs 77 I 3x, they call
Flop KT8 I raise , they reraise, I jam, they SNAP call
Turn A SO I had 90% on the flop, Turn top 2, makes like 95%....
River... Do i even have to say it? 7.

I have flopped 3 rainbow straights and was called all in the flop each time and lost to turn river flushes and full house....

I had 4 flushes on wednesday. 2 K high flushes that lost to A high, one baby flush that lost to higher, and a NUT flush that lost to river quads. Flush over flush is only like 3% of the time and quads is like never, yet there goes another days BR in coolers and

Keep in mind, this is not even close to all of the bad beats or coolers, AND this is just the last couple of days.

Again, I get it, bad beats happen, but day in, day out, getting called with junk on boards that dont connect at all and turn river or river.... I am trying not to lose my sanity or love for the game!

Also the other day i has some 8 tables and a window popped up asking me to solve some puzzle. But that was just one time. Dont know how effective is their battle, as some one here said, we need some evidence some numbers.

The examples stated in this thread lean more towards the house being rigged than being infested by bots, as bots cannot manipulate which cards fall, but a rigged house sure as hell can.

Guys, u all talking about superusers not about bots. Even though a superuser can be a bot, usually a 'bot' means just a program that plays for you using some advanced strategies. Really you can beat bots, its just like a good player, probably a team of them, but not unbeatable. I wonder if there could be a ways to exploit bots.

Here's an easy way to stop bots. About every 100 hands or so, randomizied, play stops and everyone at the table has to answer a captcha (select bicycles, etc.). If you don't answer is 60 seconds you get removed from the table.

Originally Posted by perrypip

Here's an easy way to stop bots. About every 100 hands or so, randomizied, play stops and everyone at the table has to answer a captcha (select bicycles, etc.). If you don't answer is 60 seconds you get removed from the table.

Every 100 hand is too much, too troublesome. And they have it on ACR, but just one time.

The other question - is ACR the worst room for bots problem? Why that?

Originally Posted by abgvedr

Every 100 hand is too much, too troublesome. And they have it on ACR, but just one time.

One time is not enough its not stopping them. I know it would be a inconvenience for player but doing it more often, once an hour or so with random timing, would stop bots.

it's too early to say, results are needed
party poker once started working with a Truteller, but the number of bots only grew

just google "buy poker bot" , there are many for sale, cheap. I hope the poker rooms keep up with all these to find & remove their users.
I am not very keen on HUD's either.
AI will be the end of online poker.

I like that they are trying to deal with this problem , I hope they have more results in the future , the same applies for every poker room

Despite what players say, I don't even know how you can tell when you are playing against a bot.

Only the sites can know for sure. A player who is losing many times over, is always playing against a bot. The player who is always winning, is never playing against a bot. Really?

Even the sites can't really tell. About 6-7 years ago, PokerStars deleted an account because they said it was a bot. It was playing over something like 20 tables at a time. Turns out, it wasn't a bot, it was a real player, and he even sent them a video of him doing it.

Stars apologised, and re-instated the player's account.

I was accused of using an illegal software by Stars, (which was not true.) They didn't cancel my account, but warned me. I insisted, and persisted, and about a week later, I got an apology from them, because their security system gave them a "false positive", on me.

So, who can really tell? You can't, just by playing.

What would have to happen, is that many players complain about 1 player. That would trigger the sites to look into it.

As far as the sites are concerned, They say they have special security software, (and probably do), but are they accurate, and dependable.?

Thats so true. And as a developer i can tell that most of tricks that a room could do to check if its a person playing or a bot, solving most of those sticks could still be programmed.
And don't even get me started on AI.

Originally Posted by franken222

Even the sites can't really tell. About 6-7 years ago, PokerStars deleted an account because they said it was a bot. It was playing over something like 20 tables at a time. Turns out, it wasn't a bot, it was a real player, and he even sent them a video of him doing it.

It is useless to fight bots, they cannot be defeated, like the mafia, you need to play your game and not think about them, and bots can only be where there are major tournaments, they are not in freerolls.

Any effort to ban the bots is good for the game. I agrre that Id like to see more transparency on banned accts etc.

I think there are bots on every site people out there are smarter than the programs. I have been asked if i was a bot when it was heads up in small buy in on acr which i won.

Yesterday had another verification test from ACR to prove im human

You Tube

Also on a cash table noticed a guy started to act realy crazey, reraising me al the time all of a sudden, then 5 minutes ago he types in chat "Bots"
Im like yeah man i am a bot lol
I probably opened three tables and was taking the very same time to act so he started to think i might be a bot, i dont know.

My current theory about bots is this:

The poker sites themselves use them to limit the payouts and maximize the buy-ins/re-entries in tournaments. They also use them in cash games for the same reason, anything made goes back into the site and any rake they generate goes back into the site.

I also believe that ACR has coolers built into the software. It's just uncanny how many cooler hands I see run out. KK vs AA where a K comes on the turn and an A comes on the river, etc, etc. I think we all know what I'm talking about. What does this do? It generates MASSIVE rake for the site because people are always putting their full stack in. I didn't want to believe it and I told myself all the things that have already been cited, it's just variance, I'm just imagining it, I only remember the bad beats, etc. But no, it's just way too frequent.

Another point about ACR and bots:

After the Joe Ingram videos, you can no longer freely see the names of players at cash tables so it's become impossible to track players the way Joe did in the past. So ACR's answer to the bot problem? Make sure no one can investigate it. That's not sketchy at all.

Originally Posted by franken222

A player who is losing many times over, is always playing against a bot. The player who is always winning, is never playing against a bot. Really

You're straw manning the argument, or you're willfully misunderstanding it.

The stance of "bots aren't real, you just suck" is flippant, arrogant and insulting, especially considering that the best players in the world agree it's a problem.

Maybe you should actually read and attempt to understand the argument before engaging in the debate.

Acr has bots period.Whether they are run by Acr and bot teams is a good ?
After 75k games of $50 Jackpot Sng you will know who is a bot.You will know when there are 2 bots on your table.You will see them in the $90 SitnCrush $50 ticket tournament on Sunday for leaderboard players.They stout and never play a hand the entire tournament.They are Sng Jackpot bots only programmed for those games.You can not make a 100x deal they will time out after 2 minutes so no deal.A huge list has been submitted after verified.I was asked by Acr to list the Sng game #s of 75K games.They did not even investigate a name, not even a single game.The thing is I was beating these bots 65% of the time.However is unfair when you factor in 2 bots at same table is way more difficult, bots never time out, bots never misclick,bots /players using RTA are even more difficult esp the more you play them as they are building a profile on your play.
Let me just say the Acr prove your a human is a complete joke.These SnG jackpot games are hypers.I never even have that pop up for me when I play 1k of them.In tourneys yes I have seen in 4-5 hour sessions and actually ignored it before and went on playing due to multiple tables and spots.Is very annoying if it pops up during a key hand or important decision.Next I even answered that wrong gave me some message I continued to play.
So I am not saying ACR does not have security .I am saying they must be paid to do something else hint hint... They can't catch an entire bot team running 24 7 for 4 years under same usernames running at the same time on shifts?????

The bots don't do much to win so I am glad that they play with us. It is fun to play with others and hopefully we win against these bots.

Beatlebug

I would like to understand one thing: do bots play the best they can or do they change the cards that will come?
Because I see people saying it was bots because the opponent hit the river, but I think bots only play in the best possible way.
Could someone explain to me?

For Russian poker rooms bots are a real problem, there are a lot of them here and they are everywhere, and no one is going to fight it.

I sure hope it works. Just like to play fair and sqaure, anything that keeps the integrity of the game fair I am for any day of the week. I Love poker and prefer an untampered product.

YES, it's all microlimits and free. People get too sick, and they understand it. There is no reason to think that these are bots. What will you choose for this ACR giveaway?