are they donkey or not

[unlucky79]

Well put Pokernut!!

In the history of the WSOP, can anyone name a single player who won and didn't play like a donkey?
That's easy you say. Doyle Brunson! Might I remind you that he won back to back WSOP tournaments with 10,2? If that's not a donkey hand, I don't know what is. To this day, the 10,2 is called Doyle Brunsons hand!
How about T.J. Cloutier? That's the J,9 of clubs. Forever know as the T.J. hand. He won alot of money over the years playing that less than premium hand. That might be a donkey hand!
Johnny Chan, one of the all time greats. There is no hand named after him. But when he won back to back titles, he still played hands that looked like crap, but kicked ass!
Of course there is Phil Helmouth. No hands named after him. Some could argue that when he won, he never played like a donkey! Maybe, he just acted like a Jackass when he lost!
How about Jamie Gold? Any takers? He seems like a very nice guy, but he plays alot of donkey hands. He just happens to get the best hand to lay down for his rags! I say he plays like a donkey!
Stu Unger? I never saw him play, but everything I read about him says that he was the best poker player of his generation. And the biggest Donkey of all times!
How about Johnny Moss? The old timers say he was a huge donkey. I wouldn't know. I just read that he was one of the best to ever play.
Let's look at some really great young players. Phil Ivey, Daniel Negraneau, Gus Hansen, Carlos Mortenson, Antonio Esfandiari and Patrick Antonious. A noteworthy group of poker players. Have you never seen them play like donkeys? Give me a break. They are master donkeys!
Ok, I can name one great player who doesn't ever play like donkey. Jennifer Harmon. But she has never won the main event either!
I was going to name a male non donkey player too, but the fact is I don't know one. Howard Lederer came very close. I listened to his comments on a T.V. Poker series one time and they were so accurate that I wanted to learn everything in his head. Then I saw him play in a tournament while the series was still on the air and I noticed that not only did he not heed his own advice. He played exactly opposite of what he had just recomended on the other channel. On one channel he was talking about smart, solid, cautious and aggressive poker, and on the other channel he was playing stupid, loose, agressive and weak poker.
Just something to think about. I hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers. In any case, a little preening will put them right back where they belong.

I welcome your comments!

Good post Pokernut I agree 100% everyone has there favorite hands they like to bring in with and when they hit the usually are sleeper hands because they are suited runners low pockets gapped suited cards. I myself love the hand 89 clubs and won my first casino tourney in Atlantic City heads up against Ak os . I flopped the full boat and within minutes was $ 5200 richer. Every good player plays a tight aggressive style but sometime during the game you have to mix in hands like the ones you mentioned and man are they great when they hit. The key to winning poker in my book is gut feeling on your read of the opponents starting hand play and of course analysing pot value how many outs and percentages of winning at showdown. As long as you analyze the flop turn and river and ask yourself where you stand in the hand you can't go wrong. Its amazing how many people online will just fill up the pot while you check down with the nutz. Worse mistakes are all in pf with Ak AQ AJ A 10 suited or unsuited unless you have no choice and the blinds are killing you. I hate cold calling and the only purpose of these hands is to buy out the pot. I have lost more mtt's with that hand while learning to play through the years. Then my other least favorite hand all in is Johhny boys. All great players win and lose races. The only thing to figure out before you make that all in call is will your hand hold up on the dice roll. All pros are Donkeys when they need to be. Otherwise they would not get any action when they lead off with the raise. Best of Luck to everone and when you see Donkey Kong 79 just fold!!!!

 

[unlucky79]

This hand is a monster.

"Im claiming J4s as my hand, though. I had a dream that I was going to win the WSOP in the future and I all had to do was play this hand over and over and over again."

now that' price-less, lol, but as for the whole donkment factor, I mean, look there are those who are great at what they do, and then, there's the rest of us. All those names you just mentioned up there, yes they may play stupid, but you know something, they play at those events and well not trying to be rude and the rest of us can't.... They bought cars, houses, and made there bread and butter on poker, that being said, they must be doing something right, correct?

As Kisame from Naruto would say "Hi" means yes

One day Naruto one day my brother!!!!

 

[unlucky79]

i'm pretty sure that if you played against these guys, they would take all of your money and wear your hat.

Played against Gus Hanson once at the Borgata open last year. Bluffed him out of a hand with my Ace high flush draw. Thats my best poker moment so far... He is a awsome player and great guy to chat with also. the only time I was nervous was when I got moved to his table got situated then laid eyes on him. I ordered a water and sat out a few hands to watch him play. Best seat in the house!!!! Best Of luck you all... Unlucky 79

 

[unlucky79]

my favorite is KK suited - the questionable hand

KK suited hmmm is that a full tilt special?? LOL

 

[unlucky79]

Um, no. What it proves is that poker is not about "the cards" at all at the highest level.

Play the players not the cards I agree with AG 100%
In the back of there mind they have a doubt about there cards played. You just need to make that thought become a reality and make them think they are beat.

 

[unlucky79]

This is a dumbass thread. All OP says is, "Look at player x. I've never seen him play, but he's a huge donkey! A donkey! Look at player y. He's a donkey too! I have no evidence, but my rant proves that pro players are donkeys! Just look at Phil Ivey, what a donkey!"

He haw he haw we saw a he haw donkey make a dumb call. Let the cards bring out the donkey in us all when need be.

 

[unlucky79]

The problem with this observation is that what you see on TV is not representative of the long trek up to that spot.

I agree the hard work is getting into the money. Once you are in the play loosens up and let the card race begin as you need to win races when need be.

 

[vanquish]

stop posting 100 times in a row in one thread plz

 

[N.D.]

Okay, OP was talking about The Main Event right? Ah hell, I'm still trying to figure out how these guys are donkeys...

But all together. Johnny Chan has like 10 bracelets right? And I can't figure how a complete donkey could have a collection like that. It's beyond me. But then I turn into Homer Simpson at the thought of 10 bracelets: "Ooh Shiny, *drools*". Yeah right, who am I fooling? I turn into Homer at the thought of one bracelet, and it needn't be wsop I'll settle for a tennis bracelet .

Oops, sorry, went into girl-mode, and the thought of jewelry sent me into a tizzy.

Back on topic, and even though I'm not completely new, I wouldn't consider myself to be a very good player. It's like, I know I'm not the best, but I'm not the worst either.

So, I thought once heads up there were just way more outs. Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, just an absolute ton of wiggle room for both sides to bluff/steal blinds. Well, that's how it is in sit n' gos. Why not all heads up matches?

And still, nobody's explained to me how they're donkeys. I just want an explanation, because I am a donkey and own my donkage.

But then maybe I'm taking it a bit personally because I admire all the players listed in one way or another? Except for Jamie Gold. It's got nothing to do with his skills or lack thereof. He just creeps me out. For some reason he creeps me out. Only on television though. Never met him, might be a nice guy.

 

[nevadanick]

KK suited hmmm is that a full tilt special?? LOL

ABSOLUTE (ly) ..

 

[nevadanick]

One name I didn't see mentioned was Sammy Farha. He tries to play as many hands as possible and will try to see every cheap flop. Nothing in the flop, Sammy's out most of the time, and he hits weird hands a lot. Why? Because he plays them. Dangerous part of that in playing against him would be trying to guess when he hit, when he had a monster, or a bluff. He's another big name that can turn anything into a winning hand.

Donkey is probably one of the single most overused words in online poker. As much as I've played live tables over the years, I think I see 'donk' more online in an hour than I hear at a live table in a year. (and that's NOT because they deal more hands per hour - lol) I would say that 'donks' on live tables are normally called 'fish' and we love them, bless their hearts.

Online poker created a unique 'fishing' situation. In a lake, like live poker, there are many fishermen and fewer fish. On the flat screen felt, there are so many 'fish' in the water fighting for bait, it's hard to get your boat launched.

 

[ph_il]

We know it as the flat tyre, but I'll start throwing "The Philthy" into my live patter and see if anyone picks up on it

Dang. You're right.

Forget that hand, then.

I claim the term: "Pocket Turkeys" or 55.
That term isnt taken yet?

 

[dj11]

dj's definition of a donk is the guy who starts with 92o, sees a flop of AAk and fires at it, getting called by someone who probably has either an ace or a k. When the turn is another Ace, the 92 guy fires again, and is called again, and when the river shows a Q, the 92 guy shoves, and is called again, by the guy with the case ACE.

the 92 guy is a donk. He committed to a full play bluff from the git go , with absolutely no consideration of backing down. He would likely tell you his bluff was in full force, he planned it that way to look like he had the case ACE, and in his mind it was a war of wills.

It was then, and probably was most of the time something he could not do.

Dynamically re-assessing a hand as it develops is crucial to anyone hoping to improve, and donks seldom show that capability.

 

[reglardave]

By OPs definition, here's a few "donks" to contemplate- Gus Hansen, Grinder, Antonious, Negraunu, Esfandieri.........I could go on and on. My point, though-I'd swap Brs with any one of them.

 

[aliengenius]

dj's definition of a donk is the guy who starts with 92o, sees a flop of AAk and fires at it, getting called by someone who probably has either an ace or a k. When the turn is another Ace, the 92 guy fires again, and is called again, and when the river shows a Q, the 92 guy shoves, and is called again, by the guy with the case ACE.

the 92 guy is a donk. He committed to a full play bluff from the git go , with absolutely no consideration of backing down. He would likely tell you his bluff was in full force, he planned it that way to look like he had the case ACE, and in his mind it was a war of wills.

It was then, and probably was most of the time something he could not do.

Dynamically re-assessing a hand as it develops is crucial to anyone hoping to improve, and donks seldom show that capability.

Pretty harsh assessment of someone with enough balls to fire three times...

There's a lot more actions that would constitute "donk" than that...

 

[nevadanick]

dj's definition of a donk is the guy who starts with 92o, sees a flop of AAk and fires at it, getting called by someone who probably has either an ace or a k. When the turn is another Ace, the 92 guy fires again, and is called again, and when the river shows a Q, the 92 guy shoves, and is called again, by the guy with the case ACE.

THAT would be a donk. What it has evolved into online is when the 9,2o player hits and wins. He's still called a donk for even playing that kind of hand. Funny thing is - he played it and won. Anyone can play any 2 starting cards, IMO, without being a donkey. Poker is about what you see and do AFTER the cards are on the board.

Even when calling an all-in preflop with 9,2o - they are that player's cards and chips. If that player is willing to risk their chips and seat for a 9,2o, then it is their choice. I don't play that way and try to stay out of preflop all-ins. I'd rather play poker than the lotto. Doesn't matter whether you're all-in with AA or 9,2 - it's poker lotto at it's finest, but it doesn't make either party a donkey.

After all, aren't the AA and the 9,2 both offsuit?? ..

 

[vanquish]

3-barreling with trash = donk?
uh oh