Last card on the river at Pokerstars

[ASHUKPOK]

Hello, friends!
I would like to hear your opinion on this issue.

Playing at pokerstars, I have often observed in MTT that players who have a stack of less than 15 BB, and go to All-in with a strong starting hand on the preflop, often lose. And they lose exactly when a card comes to the river, which could appear there with a minimum degree of probability.
The screenshot shows exactly one of these situations.

Sometimes it seems to me that this client program is playing against you. And there are a lot of such observations.

Do you think this really happens in this client program and does it happen often in other online rooms?

 

[fundiver199]

Its just human psycology, that we tend to note it more, when something unusual happens. "Dog bites man" is not nearly as good a story for news media as "Man bites dog". And of course we especially note it, if we are the guy with KK in that hand. The reason is, we are kind of counting the chips already. Especially on the turn where we are like "yes just need to dodge one more bullet, pleeeeese put out the deuce of spades". But then BOOM comes the 2-outer, and we are out of the tournament or left with a crippled stack

 

[glebchekotin]

agree with reply above)
nice house btw

 

[MauroMMMM]

The issue is not to go all in. And it is over. If it is played more calmly, these observations would be unnecessary. Oh well. Everyone knows what he does. Greetings

 

[blackknives]

survivorship bias from one end, and i'm sure the same feeling happens on the receiving end, that they get rivered all the time. But in reality, it's probably just variance, play enough, anything can happen

 

[Pawlowski]

Fully agree on first reply - it is more imagination than real. Take notes in a long run and you will see.

 

[ASHUKPOK]

Once again, I emphasize that we are talking about Pokerstars, specifically MTT. Players who have a stack of less than 15 BB, with a strong starting hand on the preflop, often lose.

This is exactly my observation for a fairly long period of time. And it is better not to leave comments like "guy, it's a poker...".
I appeal to the players who are attentive to such situations.:smile:

 

[fundiver199]

Once again, I emphasize that we are talking about Pokerstars, specifically MTT. Players who have a stack of less than 15 BB, with a strong starting hand on the preflop, often lose.

I have played tousinds of MTTs on Pokerstars including MTT SnGs (45-180 man). I have not noticed anything abnormal at all.

 

[ASHUKPOK]

I have played tousinds of MTTs on Pokerstars including MTT SnGs (45-180 man). I have not noticed anything abnormal at all.

Thanks for the reply. If you are currently playing on Pokerstars, try to take a closer look.

 

[CDNMAN 42]

PS River

Thanks for the reply. If you are currently playing on Pokerstars, try to take a closer look.

I agree with you totally, PS uses algorithms to increase deposits and ensure cash flow, the response from some players is always pro poker stars and never admit the possibility of PS fudging the results to their desired end...as for the previous comments of not seeing anything abnormal I guess you would have to define 'abnormal;'

 

[pribalt49]

This card on the river usually knocks me out of the tournament, I lose 90% of the hands on it.

 

[ASHUKPOK]

I agree with you totally, PS uses algorithms to increase deposits and ensure cash flow, the response from some players is always pro Poker Stars and never admit the possibility of PS fudging the results to their desired end...


I wonder how it is now in other poker rooms?
I used to play on 888 and on Party Poker. I haven't noticed anything like that. But that was about eight years ago....:joyman:

 

[speeditall]

Its just human psycology, that we tend to note it more, when something unusual happens. "Dog bites man" is not nearly as good a story for news media as "Man bites dog". And of course we especially note it, if we are the guy with KK in that hand. The reason is, we are kind of counting the chips already. Especially on the turn where we are like "yes just need to dodge one more bullet, pleeeeese put out the deuce of spades". But then BOOM comes the 2-outer, and we are out of the tournament or left with a crippled stack

yes it is always like hold hold hold but boom this leaves us dazzled lol

 

[acidburnfx]

Hello, friends!
I would like to hear your opinion on this issue.

Playing at Pokerstars, I have often observed in MTT that players who have a stack of less than 15 BB, and go to All-in with a strong starting hand on the preflop, often lose. And they lose exactly when a card comes to the river, which could appear there with a minimum degree of probability.
The screenshot shows exactly one of these situations.

Sometimes it seems to me that this client program is playing against you. And there are a lot of such observations.

Do you think this really happens in this client program and does it happen often in other online rooms?

Possibly! I've seen another big company talking openly that changes its algorithm several times a day. I don't know if you've seen it, this video is already older and shows how does PokerStars shuffle the deck. Detail, the video received many negative comments and have been disabled.

 

[ASHUKPOK]

Possibly! I've seen another big company talking openly that changes its algorithm several times a day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DkHzOUzDjc

Thanks!
I didn't see this video. But it is quite clear about the random selection of cards, confirming that "everything is clear". In fact, my observations show otherwise, so I decided to touch on the topic on the forum.

I will try to play dynamically at the table "on one note". Let's see if this will affect the situation.

I publish another screen from today's game. My odds in this hand were 49 to 51, almost equal.
I must say, I was lucky in this hand.

 

[DS3]

Well, I would hardly put this down to PokerStars alone.

For heaven's sake, Jamie Staples and now others even call that specific river card (ace) Barry Greenstein. If it did not happen with some regularity there would be point in the nickname would there?

 

[ObbleeXY]

Kind of a strange question. We do not really know.
Unless someone has access to the shuffle and deal algorithms. Anything they say is purely speculative and based on our own perception rather than empirical fact.

I too have seen far too many weird hands to believe the Stars is random. But then again, things are different when you play online compared to live. If you are shuffling manually, there is a big difference in methods in determining outcome of the shuffle. But with live games, you can go through volume very quickly. So the brain is comparing apples and oranges here.

I am less suspicious about what the actual cards are than how they're be selected.

Although I constantly say...its just variance ... those are simply odds...etc...I do have my doubts about PokerStars too. I do not believe the cards are shuffled and dealt randomly either.

My suspicion is that the hole cards are "known" by the algorithm which deals flop, turn and river and cards seem to be selected to promote action.

When I fold, for instance, and view my cards, it doesn't seem to matter what my cards were...I almost ALWAYS would have hit *something*...and my straight and flush draws appear with ridiculous frequency...certainly far more than when I play live.

But at the end of the day, we do not have access to the algorithms. This is where the problem lies. It is difficult to trust a black box.

Cheers,
ObbleeXY

 

[el79]

It happens in all rooms. I also sometimes have doubts because that situation is repeated a lot and always on the same street, on the river, it gives me the feeling that it may be about a programming code at a logarithm, but anyway I keep playing without losing the illusion, the luck, the variance, the codes are there and they are for everyone to the same extent ja

 

[Sergei 9417]

Hello
It is difficult to argue about card manipulation, why such a big company needs this crap, they are already making a lot of money. won himself in a seemingly hopeless hand, but judge for yourself
Flop
8,5,2-rainbow
The villain has 8 8 and he goes all-in
I have 5 2 and I call
What are my chances? I don’t remember what percentage they offered me, but I continued the distribution, the villain did not take the grand either, the result;
Turn 2
River 2
And I often watched such hands and I myself lost more than once, maybe this is only at my tables, but I write what is happening to me
Best regards, Sergei

 

[terryk]

The cards flop out the same for everyone,,,,can't get any more fair than that! :deal:

 

[franken222]

So, my question is: Why would PokerStars, or any site, for that matter gain by fixing hands?

They don't know you, and they don't know any of the other players.

I've had many hands go against me, like that, but I've also had many go in my favour.

Why is it, that only the hands people lose, get commented on. Let's face it, for every loser, there's a winner.

I'm sure that the winner of that particular hand, didn't post any messages saying how things go in their favour.

 

[peaceofcoke]

Me too, at first I made some erroneous observation of that kind that led me to wrong assumptions, for instance, what would PS or any other poker room gain if a player busts out? nobody is betting on A player to win or B player to lose. There is absolutly no reason to think that the client is against you, if you do, you will start losing big time and the best solution would be to quit online poker and start playing live, oh wait, you will also blame the deck, the dealer, edge sorting etc... play your game and avoid the unnecessary allins. BTW KK allin with 15BB is GTO, 66 PFR/Call shove in LJ is questionable, especially while commiting 1/3 of your stack there while you have 66.
Myself wouldnt call unless +(99/A5s/ATo/KJo/K9s/QJo/QTs/JTs)

 

[peaceofcoke]

Thanks!
I didn't see this video. But it is quite clear about the random selection of cards, confirming that "everything is clear". In fact, my observations show otherwise, so I decided to touch on the topic on the forum.

I will try to play dynamically at the table "on one note". Let's see if this will affect the situation.

I publish another screen from today's game. My odds in this hand were 49 to 51, almost equal.
I must say, I was lucky in this hand.

And what were u thinking? PFR 55 UTG is suicide, K9s shove while short UTG1 is completly GTO

 

[ASHUKPOK]

Well, I would hardly put this down to PokerStars alone.

For heaven's sake, Jamie Staples and now others even call that specific river card (ace) Barry Greenstein. If it did not happen with some regularity there would be point in the nickname would there?

Yes, I should probably read the book "Ace on the River". I am sure that I will find a lot of interesting things in it.:deal:

 

[ASHUKPOK]

When I fold, for instance, and view my cards, it doesn't seem to matter what my cards were...I almost ALWAYS would have hit *something*...and my straight and flush draws appear with ridiculous frequency...certainly far more than when I play live.

But at the end of the day, we do not have access to the algorithms. This is where the problem lies. It is difficult to trust a black box.

Yes, this happens very often.
You discard a losing hand, and you get the strongest hand on the board.
This is normal, and not so much worrying.
But when, with an enviable consistency, you are knocked out with a small stack.... At the same time, you have a strong starting hand, and the opponent with a large stack on his hand is "garbage". And he wins on the river...
It makes you think!:joyman: