help required from the good cc folks

[Stefanicov]

Ok so i am taking time away from playing poker coz i feel i need to learn the basics which i never bothered to learn when i should of in the beginning. I am when concentrating a very good stuational player and i can read pple well as well.
The problem i keep coming up against now is tht because i never learned pot odds and basic theory when i should of at the lower stakes it is affecting my game as when i am good i get outplayed seldom if ever but as soon as i am off just 2% my whole game goes to hell because i have nothing other thn my instincts and reads to go on.

Could anyone offer anything books or advice as to how to go from where i am at to a place where i have somnething to fall back on when my reads and aggressive game ar off so i dont take such massive swings in br.

I xurrently swing 500 $ on each typical downswing which for the stakes i play is ridiculas

thx for any tips

 

[joeeagles]

I'm assuming you are asking for NLHE. If that's the case the 2 books I suggest are:

1) "the theory of poker" from Sklansky

2) "no limit holdem" from Sklansky and Miller


Read them in that order (1&2). Those explain about the basics you are talking about. It's amazing that you have been succesful just on instincts. Adding this to your game should make you that much better. Good luck.

 

[skoldpadda]

Get Angel Largay's book on Hold Em. It has good exercises in it for testing these skills and he gives clear, useful examples. Do the problems at the end of each chapter and you'll be fine. Most Hold 'Em books teach the stuff, but not that many have lots of practice problems.

 

[crancko]

Check out the CC articles. Great stuff there that can teach you both the basics and more advanced stuff.

Additionally i am using Harrington's M factor to help determine aggression level and style of play. The M gives you a good idea of your standing and expected lifetime in relation to your stack. The M is calculated:

M = Stack / BB + SB + Ante

A M above 10 is desired as it shows how many rounds your stack will survive on its own.

Example: You're in a stars mtt after the first break. Your stack is 2200, the blinds are 100 / 200 and the ante is 25. Your M is:

2200 / 100 + 200 + 25 = 6.8 M

So your life expextancy in the tournament are dwindling (down to 6,8 rounds at the current level). You need to start playing harder and stop peeping at flops with questionable hands. Either you hit a monster and get paid - or you pretend to hit a monster and scare the competition off - or more likely: You hit a semi good hand and have to play it like a monster either scaring everyone away or hope for luck on the board.

Using M in MTT's also requires you to consider rising blinds and antes. A reasonable M can quickly translate into a bad one, once the blinds and the antes go up. So keep an eye on the time left on each level.

 

[vanquish]

I think you should keep playing while doing other things to help your game as well. I'm a proponent of using experience to learn the game, even if that means playing with play money. Seeing tons and tons of hands will likely improve your game (this is what I did when I started poker).

 

[rob5775]

Honestly, Steve, you have a good grasp of a lot of nuances of the game. If you want some nuts and bolts, getting down to basics books... read Harrington on Hold em. It is alittle at odds with your style, but it taught me alot when I was kinda adrift and just playing 'by feel'.

I read Supersystem, but I felt the sections on the other games besides NL were more beneficial... but it might be worth a read.

Good luck, hope you find what your looking for.

 

[Stefanicov]

I'm assuming you are asking for NLHE. If that's the case the 2 books I suggest are:

1) "the theory of poker" from Sklansky

2) "no limit holdem" from Sklansky and Miller


Read them in that order (1&2). Those explain about the basics you are talking about. It's amazing that you have been succesful just on instincts. Adding this to your game should make you that much better. Good luck.

ok thts true i probably have a lot of thoery up in my head but my game is my own creation no one else plays like me i read no books i took no advice and everything i have learned i have adapted to how i play i am now wondering if i should give up my style and play normally as books say or whether i should perfect how i play now

 

[Egon Towst]

Do you use Poker Tracker, Stefan ?

If not, that is likely to do you as much good as any book. You can use it to find and fix consistent leaks/errors while still maintaining the style you are comfortable with.

The Sklansky books recommended higher up are good, but they are very dry reading aimed at the more studious and academically-minded player. I suspect that is not you, and you might find them dull.

 

[beardyian]

Sklansky can be tough if you dont like the maths side but if you do you'll find a whole new game out there

You've done pretty well so far, GL to you

 

[bubbasbestbabe]

So what books would you guys reccommend for an aggressive style of play?

 

[NineLions]

Or, futher to Egon's suggestion, Poker Office actually calculates and displays pot odds for you, if you want to get really lazy.

I've found it useful to do quick checks on my mental estimates of pot odds, but also had some problems with it crashing with CDP because it runs using Java as does CDP

 

[joeeagles]

[ok thts true i probably have a lot of thoery up in my head but my game is my own creation no one else plays like me i read no books i took no advice and everything i have learned i have adapted to how i play i am now wondering if i should give up my style and play normally as books say or whether i should perfect how i play now/QUOTE]



Stef I don't think you should give up your style because instincts are superior to any poker lesson, that's why I suggested those 2 books because they won't sensibly alter your style of play they will just give some insights on game theory and teach you things that its best you know like EV, pot odds etc.

For those who suggest HoH, I found those books very useful for tournaments, particularly vol.2, and even if many principles expressed there can be useful for cash games, I don't think those are what Stef is looking for.

If I understood correctly he is looking for basics and game theories to improve what he already does well, he doesn't need to learn the game, he just needs to understand some important principles that will certainly help him.

What Egon said about those books being very dry is true but math, by nature, is kind of dry and I don't see a way out. Those books will certainly give a better edge to a good player, they are meant for people who have a knowledge of the game and that fits Stef's profile.

Good luck mate, enjoy the reading.

 

[aliengenius]

I would like to recommend "Tao of Poker" by Larry Phillips (and also Zen and the Art of Poker, same author). You will likely find some of his ideas/comments to be weak-tight at fist glance (as I did), but if you read them with an open mind perhaps you will find the little bit of balance you need to mitigate your variance.

 

[joosebuck]

you want to take poker theory/math and apply it to your own personal style. that's the only chance you have of being a winning player.

 

[pokernut]

I was the exact same way not too long ago. Played for a while and did okay here and there. I'd win a decent amount here and lose a decent amount there. I bought all the books but have still only read a few. I am not a study type learner, I'm a learn by experience person.

I realized that the learn by experience needs some study type tune ups, and since then I do much better. The books I read that helped me are def HOH 1 and 11, the theory of poker, and texas holdem odds and probabilities.

TBH, what helped me even more then that though (I think) is reading all of the articles and blogs online, as well as bluff, cardplayer, etc. By varying all that you take in you really realize that there are bits and pieces from everywhere that you can cut and paste into your own.

Having good reads and instincts is the most important thing, that isn't taught well. It's like saying an athelete is just born with the talent. Now you just need to fine tune it.

 

[Swanny]

Or, futher to Egon's suggestion, Poker Office actually calculates and displays pot odds for you, if you want to get really lazy.

I've found it useful to do quick checks on my mental estimates of pot odds, but also had some problems with it crashing with CDP because it runs using Java as does CDP

You should use MySQL instead of Java with Poker Office. I have had no problems with it after I installed MySQL and told Poker Office to use it. It's much much faster...

To the OP: Don't know whether you play Limit or NL. But Getting Started in Holdem (GSIH) by Ed Miller, then Small Stakes Holdem (SSH) by Ed will be a great help to you regardless of what game you play. Maybe not all of SSH will help you with NL but the "gambling Concepts" section is outstanding. I am aweful with math (because I always told myself I was and am trying to break this,) I see a math problem and my head begins to explode. But, the way it is explained in these books helped me get around it and understand the concepts fully.

Theory of Poker by Sklanksy is a great book also. Someone mentioned previously that it is very mathy. It is, but again, the concepts get you thinking and if you can do that it will help.

I wish there was a book out there that would help a 43 year old who has always just shrugged of math as "I just suck at math" I have a calculator so who cares, and re-train my brain.

 

[vanquish]

better play free games it teaches every thing

What are you talking about?

 

[DeadoneD1]

^^^^^^^^^^lol^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[tiltboy]

I get the impression you are a winning player. I would read up on these books but be mindful of not letting it drastically alter your game which is successful use them to supplement your style.

Slansky can be a bit of a headache if you have not looked to much at the mathematical side of poker - im reading 'No Limit Holdem Theory and Practice'. I like the idea of using poker software to look at areas your struggling with.

Personally i would start with something like Phil Gordons - Green/Blue books. Always ensure books you go for are specific to no limit holdem as this is what you play.